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Re:Why Google Employees Quit by paul on Sunday January 18, 2009 @08:05PM (#439889)
I remember when I initially read these emails (the thread is from last year), my first though was, "I'm glad that I don't have to work with these people."

Perhaps this is unfair since they are just venting (and not all of the emails were in this category, some were reasonable), but there's something about their attitude that is just very unappealing. I can't quite put my finger on it though... Something about working at big companies seems to turn many people into whiny children. I think it's because they aren't really responsible for anything.

Unfortunately, Google's transition into "yet another big company" is inevitable at this point. If you take the same fundamental structure as every other big company, and hire the same people as the other big companies, then you shouldn't be surprised when you end up looking like every other big company.

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by wheels on Monday January 19, 2009 @02:51AM (#440206)
The other side of things, kind of rounding out the child-like analogy, is that the exposure to opportunity is limited similarly to the exposure to responsibility. Engineering hire number 14,162 might make it to middle management if [s]he sticks around long enough.

If you combine this with the trajectory that a lot of smart folks end up on -- home, college, grad-school, large corporation -- I think there's a natural disenfranchisement when kids that thought they were going to change the world and be astronauts when they grew up realize that they're staring down a few decades of project management meetings and internal bureaucracy.

Added to a smooth transition from their parents to their company taking care of all of the hard parts of life, it does lead to an odd form of young adulthood where a lot of folks are too afraid of deviating from the prescribed path to break out and do something that's more fulfilling to them.

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by mark_h on Sunday January 18, 2009 @09:47PM (#439975)

  Something about working at big companies seems to turn many people into whiny children. I think it's because they aren't really responsible for anything.
I think you've just nailed something I've been observing at my own place of employment, thank you! To lack-of-responsibility, I would also add: security in the job. It's comfortable enough and you can get by without too much exertion, so there's little motivation to either leave or work harder.

I certainly don't work in an extreme case of that, but your hypothesis resonated.

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by far33d on Monday January 19, 2009 @10:21AM (#440501)
I was really hoping to hear some insight from these ex-employees about the google culture to see how it compares to my disillusionment with a "cool" big company.

Instead, most of the comments (I couldn't get through all of them) were whining about benefits, pay, and snack stations. Seriously? As a friend of mine tweeted the other day about my old company - "people are getting laid off. stop complaining about the lack of free beer this friday".

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by redrobot5050 on Monday January 19, 2009 @10:52AM (#440542)
I remember reading an article by Neil Strauss in Rolling Stone covering Jenna Jamison, the notorious adult film star and the adult industry in general.

Since Neil was sent "on set" while Jenna was filming, a lot of the article details him talking to people that work in the industry (journeyman/freelance make up artists, camera men, sound guys, Male "Actors").

One thing that stuck out to Neil that he drew attention to is what these guys bullshitted about at work: Sports. Kids. Health Care. Wages. Tax tips (since they're all contractors).

The reason I bring this up is to make this point: No matter how mundane or bizarre your industry, people still have the same genuine needs. A company that addresses those needs in a superb factor will have loyal employees. If Google is subpar in salary and puts people in jobs that're menial and they're overqualified for them, they will get bored and they will leave. I can't simplify it any more than that. Any company with 18,000 employees can't rely on "cool" to motivate. For an easy 17,000 of those workers, money (or stock options) is the biggest motivator.

A lot can be said about this, but I'll go out on this note: Not all of the world's greatest problem solvers are in their mid-20s and are motivated by the "cool" factor of a web app and think in Python.

The majority of people, in any field, are motivated by money. Microsoft pays in the 68th percentile for a reason. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. And yes, intelligent 24 year old Standford CS grad should feel like there's something more to life than supporting Google AdWords code, which, according to other internet rants, is simply a frustrating experience.

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by nostrademons on Monday January 19, 2009 @01:11PM (#440710)
Google's "official" hiring docs say that they pay in the 75th percentile, with stock options in the 90th percentile. I'm not sure if that's true, but then, I'm not sure if Microsoft's claim of paying in the 68th percentile is true either. From the Envy data someone else posted on the thread, it looked like Google engineers were being paid just slightly more than their Microsoft counterparts.
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by icefox on Monday January 19, 2009 @05:25PM (#440995)
I have only ever heard of one person getting a better offer at Google, but I have heard countless times of people getting low offers or taking a pay cut to work for Google. So to see so many leave because of pay in the end isn't surprising. Working on cool things only gets you so far (six months? a year?) When your friend gets more then double your salary then you for doing something much easier and has a better out of work life it really makes you wonder if there isn't something better. Perhaps not Google, but a nice place to work now that google is on your resume.
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by nostrademons on Monday January 19, 2009 @05:43PM (#441014)
Could be selection bias. People who got a better offer at Google tend not to trumpet it, they just work there and keep quiet about salary. After all, why make your employer think that they're overpaying you?
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by ars on Tuesday January 20, 2009 @07:01AM (#441640)
Is that 75th up or down?
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by nostrademons on Tuesday January 20, 2009 @11:58AM (#441900)
75th up, i.e. 25% of the time you likely could find a better offer than Google, 75% of the time it'd be your best offer. I have no idea how they calibrate it.
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by far33d on Monday January 19, 2009 @11:03AM (#440561)
Exactly - I expected more of the frustration to be about the menial work and how people weren't feeling motivated, not how annoyed they were when google skimped on snacks.
Re:Why Google Employees Quit by redrobot5050 on Monday January 19, 2009 @01:33PM (#440738)
I haven't read it all, but only one person was complaining about snacks. Most complaints, as far as I can tell (having been shafted by companies, and also having found great matches) seem legitimate.

The big complaint about food is that it seems its expected to work after dinner, and that a lot of politicking happens after dinner as well. The people who go and be social at the dinners tend to get the "cool" assignments. Others tend to be multiple bosses, inability to shift projects, or just a better offer came along.

That said, I don't think these people are "bitching" or disgruntled. Google asked for their brutal honesty (which deserves credit) and they're being open about it. Not everyone is going to find Google to be a perfect match. And for tech firms that aren't Google, that's a good thing.

Re:Why Google Employees Quit by prakash on Monday January 19, 2009 @02:44AM (#440203)
What would you do different in terms of structure of a large company? Also who would you hire for large companies?