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Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by kokonoko on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:19PM (#43976573)
Can we get rid of the password expiration too? Requiring that users change their perfectly secure password every 6 months is absurd and gives the impression of security when in reality it only makes things worse.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by signal11 on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:29PM (#43976688)
Banks are aware that NIST and various other bodies have updated their guidance about password expiration. Even vendors like Microsoft who supply extensively to financial services, have updated their guidance about password policies.

At this point — barring edge cases of operating in geographies where regulations haven’t caught up — it’s just inertia, aka “inaction doesn’t get you fired (usually)”.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by delfinom on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @04:48PM (#43977553)
It's not inertia. In my big corpo's case, it's because the cybersecurity insurer is refusing to follow NIST.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by technion on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @05:00PM (#43977671)
I have been in three different organisations now with this same excuse, and actually called their insurer to clarify. In all cases, the insurer asks the password policy such as expirations. Complete absence of a written policy is a problem. Non expiring passwords was not.

Someone in management took the application form and justified their own belief on security and two of those three companies still tell staff "it's because of our insurerer" even after given the facts.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by Geebs on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:21PM (#43976599)
One hundred percent. I’d be interested to see how many people resort to having weaker passwords just to try to remember the new password every 6 months. I know many folks are proud of their password ‘system’ of using the same word and adding different numbers every time they need to change it. Not helpful.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by econ on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @02:59AM (#43981657)
If the website gets one of those it works. If they get multiple example of the password systeem in action, how hard would it be to guess elsewhere? You might not even remember that you've used one variation before.

I keep a long list of strong passwords and some 50 pins in my head, at least I think I do.

I know a guy who regularly gets locked out of things. It's a terrifying process. Everything unravels.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by spjt on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @10:02PM (#43991157)
What usually happens to me is, I get stuck where whatever service I'm using insists the password must be changed RIGHT NOW before proceeding. There was something I was trying to do. Maybe I don't have a pen, I'm on my phone, whatever, I don't have time for this shit. I need to change it to something I will remember, which is something like "Password1". Maybe I remember to pick a better one later, maybe I don't. Maybe (looking at you, Okta) I can't change the password because I changed it too recently...
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by newhotelowner on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:31PM (#43976712)
Our hotel franchise requires us to change the password every month. We can't use the last 6-8 passwords.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by bluGill on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @04:06PM (#43977109)
Password1, Password2 ... Password123456789 - I can do this all day. And realy you should as a password you can easially remember is a bad password so the first part that doesn't change is the important part
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by rrr_oh_man on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:34PM (#43976735)
Password manager ftw
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by pc86 on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @05:02PM (#43977692)
This is fine for services you can easily access on a phone or computer.

My employer requires I change my laptop password every 60 days, it stores the last 2 years of passwords to prevent reuse.

I am not opening up LastPass and plugging in a 32 character random string every time I want to start my computer up. My password at any given point is either a few random words and a number, or a short (8-12 character) alphanumeric string without symbols. But you know what it always is? On a post-it note stuck to the inside of my laptop.

My employer is consciously choosing to make my laptop less secure because the CISO is an idiot.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by deathanatos on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @07:01PM (#43978755)
I once joked (I think because my employer had a similar, crazy requirement) that my keyboard's firmware was programmable, and I could just reprogram that FW so that Level3Shift+some key would rattle off the month's password.

Obviously, this is a terrible idea.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by michaelt on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @07:14PM (#43978888)
Believe it or not, "Yubikey" security keys have about 8 different configurable modes. One of them is "emulate a USB keyboard and enter a static password".

So not only could you implement your idea - you could also tell people you "log in with a yubikey" and they'll think you're at the forefront of security.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by hamburglar on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @05:24PM (#43977880)
The only solution to this problem is to put your password on a post-it note in the most obvious place possible? Are we sure the CISO is the idiot in this story? This sounds like malicious negligence. I sure hope nothing that actually matters is on your system.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by 9x39 on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @07:02PM (#43978765)
Well, a TPM would eliminate this user-hostile auth dance, although that security model is different than a password.

Failing to recognize and channel human behavior into positive behaviors and outcomes does suggest a level of ignorance/arrogance outside of extreme situations.

There’s probably a type of data one might handle to justify physical access threat models, but incompetence and out of date knowledge from these types is far more likely. FWIW something like a third to half of CISO’s are from nontechnical management backgrounds, based on surveys I’ve seen.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by hamburglar on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @07:43PM (#43979118)
I think it’s valid to question the wisdom of a CISO using misguided password guidelines. I don’t think it’s valid to respond to guidelines you disagree with by willfully sabatoging security. You relinquish your righteous position on password security when you put your password on a post-it in your laptop.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by pc86 on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @09:11AM (#43984121)
You call it "willfully [sabotaging] security," I call it "the best alternative that doesn't leave me with a 30% chance of forgetting my password every 60 days."

1Password is smart enough to let me have a secure, non-leaked password of high complexity that I have memorized, then let me go years without resetting it. I started there and the policies have made my laptop progressively less secure over time.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by hamburglar on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @06:23PM (#43989808)
It just so happens that the best alternative you could think of is literally the worst alternative anybody could think of. If I didn’t know better I would call it wilfully bad and chosen more to prove a point than for any other reason.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by viridian on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @01:43PM (#43987269)
Reads like you are trying to argue for abstinence only education here. The reality security must operate in is that the best security policies are those that people don't circumvent.

If people have to resort to sticky notes, sharing credentials, scripts that automatically update a file containing a plaintext credential, or what have you, odds are that security has massively fumbled the ball.

Keep in mind this is already intuitive enough for everyone, even the security minded, within some set of social and or professional norms. No one uses one time pads for common password based authentications, nor do they rotate passwords daily, nor do they require 64+ characters. We don't do this because its obvious to everyone that business would be too great, and people simply would not comply. Many security teams seem interested in pushing that boundary as far as they can without regard to what the probability density function of compliance actually looks like.

I say this as my password for Nationwide Children's Hospital has officially become the first password to cross that line for me, and now lives in a paper notebook. Forced reset, 2FA mandated, requiring 15 characters, upper, lower, number, and special char (but only a subset of special chars).

Maybe its overkill that the place I go to fill out questionnaires about baby poop, has minimum password requirements such that the entire world's computer would take over 10,000 years to crack.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by hamburglar on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @06:17PM (#43989761)
If it’s too much to take then it’s too much to take and nobody can argue with that. When that happens, you resort to something more reasonable. Putting your password in a notebook, for example. Putting it on a post-it note on your laptop is not that reasonable alternative.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by econ on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @03:07AM (#43981704)
Their job is onthere! Losing the job is much worse than losing the data. You need to secure that too!
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by joquarky on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @04:12PM (#43988690)
> because the CISO is an idiot.

How do these people get these jobs?

I have 25 years of enterprise-level web application development experience. I passed the CISSP on my first try with minimal study. I read RFCs for fun.

And yet I can't even get a screening interview with an actual human (although my one AI interview asked surprisingly competent follow-up questions).

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by rrr_oh_man on Friday May 16, 2025 @02:02PM (#44008224)
> How do these people get these jobs?

Relationships.

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by arccy on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @06:41PM (#43978574)
Hunter2025May
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by brazzy on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:22PM (#43976609)
NIST only changed that recommendation last year. Expect that update to take at least 10 years to percolate through institutions like banks.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by GuB-42 on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @03:54PM (#43976973)
This recommendation dates back from 2017.

> Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.

8 years later, no one seems to care. Other things that the NIST doesn't recommend is rules such as "letters + numbers + special characters". What it does recommend is checking for known weak passwords, such as passwords that are present in dictionaries and leaks or relate to the user name.

Here is the relevant document: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html

Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by jermaustin1 on Tuesday May 13, 2025 @04:00PM (#43977043)
And expect people to still implement it in the future, based on documentation from some consultancy that hasn't disseminated the new recommendation internally to their implementation engineers.
Re:Why are banks still getting authentication so wrong? by econ on Wednesday May 14, 2025 @02:33AM (#43981511)
It indicates they are using good security practices that are no longer considered good. They might be living in 2010 which is worrying on its own.