Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by henning on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @04:55PM
(#43837961)
I thought this kind of bullshit was only supposed to happen in MongoDB!
[ Parent
| on HN ]
Then you haven't read enough jepsen reports. Distributed system guarantees generally can't be trusted
Postgres is not a distributed system in this configuration usually though is it?
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by semiquaver on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:15PM
(#43838125)
The result is for “Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL multi-AZ clusters” which are certainly a distributed system.
I’m not well versed in RDS but I believe that clustered is the only way to use it.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by dragonwriter on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:40PM
(#43838356)
An RDS cluster can have a single instance (but it can't be multi-AZ with a single instance.)
No, you can have single instances
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by reissbaker on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:53PM
(#43838470)
This writeup tested multi-AZ RDS for Postgres — which is always distributed behind the scenes (otherwise, it couldn't exist in multiple AZs).
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by dragonwriter on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:39PM
(#43838338)
A multi-AZ cluster is necessarily a distributed system.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by bananapub on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:16PM
(#43838135)
I think zookeeper is still the only distributed system that got through jepsen without dataloss bugs, though at high cost: https://aphyr.com/posts/291-jepsen-zookeeper
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by robterrell on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:28PM
(#43838229)
Didn't FoundationDB get a clean bill of health?
Aphyr didn’t test foundation himself, but the foundation team did their own Jepsen testing which they reported passing. All of this was a long time ago, before Foundation was bought by Apple and open sourced.
Now members of the original Foundation team have started Antithesis (https://antithesis.com/) to make it easier for other systems to adopt this sort of testing.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by MarkMarine on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:37PM
(#43838314)
wasn't tested because: "haven't tested foundation in part because their testing appears to be waaaay more rigorous than mine."
https://web.archive.org/web/20150312112552/http://blog.found...
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by bananapub on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:43PM
(#43838376)
apparently wasn't tested because Kyle thought the internal testing was better than jepsen itself: https://abdullin.com/foundationdb-is-back/
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by colesantiago on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:14PM
(#43838122)
Do people still use MongoDB in production?
I was quite surprised to read that Stripe uses MongoDB in the early days and still today and I can't imagine the sheer nightmares they must have faced using it for all these years.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by senderista on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:24PM
(#43838189)
MongoDB has come a long way. They acquired a world-class storage engine (WiredTiger) and then they hired some world-class distsys people (e.g. Murat Demirbas). They might still be hamstrung by early design and API choices but from what I can tell (never used it in anger) the implementation is pretty solid.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by computerfan494 on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:41PM
(#43838360)
MongoDB is a very good database, and these days at scale I am significantly more confident in its correctness guarantees than any of the half-baked Postgres horizontal scaling solutions. I have run both databases at seven figure a month spend scale, and I would not choose off-the-shelf Postgres for this task again.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by colechristensen on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @05:23PM
(#43838184)
mongodb is a public company with a market cap of 14.2 billion dollars. so yes, people still use it in production
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by djfivyvusn on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @06:08PM
(#43838586)
I've been looking for a job the last few weeks.
Literally the only job ad I've seen talking about MongoDB was a job ad for MongoDB itself.
Those memes are 10 years old, you know that some very tech company use MongoDB right? We're talking billions a year.
Billion dollar companies lose their customer’s data all the time.
Re:Jepsen: Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL 17.4
by djfivyvusn on Tuesday April 29, 2025 @06:04PM
(#43838551)
What is your point?