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Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by giraffe_lady on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:14PM (#43806750)
> It found that wage increases have reduced fast food employment, shortened the hours worked, compelled fast food franchises to use more automation

The wage increase is the agent here? More correct to say that owners did these things in response.

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by pbh101 on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:23PM (#43806835)
One is a trigger to an otherwise steady-state dynamic system. I don’t think unreasonable to ask what effect a policy change had, net all the choices each agent has and takes in response to the change.
Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by qcic on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:24PM (#43806849)
Potato - potato. Doesn’t really matter that it was a response, the chain of events is still the same, so are the results. It the end of the day, just one more example of unintended consequences of legislation.
Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by Spooky23 on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:38PM (#43806980)
Labor is just one part of it. Increasing the wage 15% at worst pulled forward the transition to automation.

Automating the order flow avoids even higher wages for good English speakers and kiosks drive higher margin via up sales. Automation of drink pouring reduces shrink. Eliminating cash reduces cash handling expenses and reduces refunds.

I have a friend who owns a few McDonalds in a high expense state. He bitches about marketing expense share and supply cost.

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by yellowapple on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:27PM (#43806878)
> the chain of events is still the same

Ignoring the link in that chain wherein corporations chose to take various unnecessary and punative measures as retaliation against having to pay their workers more is intellectually dishonest, at best.

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by db48x on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:34PM (#43806947)
Laying people off to stay profitable is not punitive. It’s not desirable to be laid off, but the business isn’t punishing them.
Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by yellowapple on Sunday April 27, 2025 @07:53PM (#43816179)
Laying people off when you don't need to do so to stay profitable, however, is absolutely punitive. The restaurant industry's margins may be thin, but they ain't that thin - and I can guarantee you there's plenty fat to be trimmed from the managerial and executive pay structures long before needing to sack the minimum-wage employees.
Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by db48x on Monday April 28, 2025 @07:49PM (#43827350)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/punitive

The owner of a restaurant who lays off waiters in order to spend less on salaries is not punishing the waiters. Nobody thinks that the waiters have broken any rules. The definition of “punitive” is that it is a punishment for breaking the rules. The waiters might think it’s unfair or niggardly, of course, but that’s not what “punitive” means. Pick a more appropriate word.

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by yellowapple on Wednesday April 30, 2025 @11:12AM (#43846407)
> The owner of a restaurant who lays off waiters in order to spend less on salaries is not punishing the waiters.

It's punishment for demanding better pay. That makes it punitive, whether the mechanism for negotiating that better pay is "we voted for (people who will vote for) a minimum wage increase" or "we formed a union so we can collectively bargain for a wage increase" or what have you.

> Pick a more appropriate word.

Okay, then:

- Retaliatory

- Self-serving

- Douchebaggish

Do those work better for you? Or are you going to find some other excuse to nitpick and distract from the core issue of employers being full of shit when they blame wage increases for "needing" to lay people off?

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by Difwif on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:30PM (#43806913)
It's a completely unsurprising cause and effect. What other outcome would you expect?

This is a business functioning as it should.

Re:California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at s... by Justin_K on Saturday April 26, 2025 @04:34PM (#43806945)
People said the same when factory automation came about. Wouldn't you agree that it's silly to pay a human to press the buttons you verbalize?