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Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Saturday April 26, 2025 @12:05PM (#43804802)
> American right-wing reeks of elitism

Common notion, but based in ignorance. I've found that the left wing is more idealistic, but in the sense that they have chosen not to learn from history and rely on immediate emotional values. The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them.

Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist, and the right calling the left idiots.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by ivape on Saturday April 26, 2025 @12:10PM (#43804856)
Common notion, but based in ignorance.

This is just an ad hominem, to prove it, I shall call you ignorant too.

Next:

The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them.

I need white people on the right to testify honestly that a Mexican took their job or out-bid them on a rental or real estate. So I would need millions of them to say "Hey I went for this job at Costco, but some cheaper Venezuelan got it". Or, "Hey I wanted an apartment, but since there are so many Mexicans, they all just gobbled it up". So, what I need is testimonies of this.

The reason we don't get such testimonies is because the truth is nastier. The truth is, "hmm, its a little too brown and dirty and all crime-like in my neighborhood now days". This they will never testify to.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Saturday April 26, 2025 @01:10PM (#43805338)
> wonderful integrated members of our society

You've clearly only paid attention to ragebait. Because "integrated members of our society" is exactly what the right wing is interested in. But this is not what happened in recent years. The entire reason for the deportations is because they are not becoming "integrated members of our society" - it instead became "all crime-like" in places it wasn't before, and the correlation with the alien imports is just too obvious. It happened too fast and too much, and now the correction is just as hard.

"They are simply sick" and you're...... proving my point.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by Erem on Saturday April 26, 2025 @12:22PM (#43804956)
> The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them.

It’s hard to take this one at good faith. The right wing is very publicly melting down the CDC for glue while the second order effects of a preventable measles epidemic spreads through the country. Is there a more targeted claim you want to make?

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Saturday April 26, 2025 @01:14PM (#43805383)
The right wing had a big problem with the role the CDC played in the authoritarianism of the COVID era. Now they're melting down a weapon of that authoritarianism. What's more important, preserving civil rights by preventing authoritarianism, or a single epidemic? Gotta think long term here.

I suspect that you merely dislike the authoritarian things the government is currently doing; I dislike that the government is authoritarian. We are not the same.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by professor_x on Saturday April 26, 2025 @01:16PM (#43805397)
Learning from history and still ending up on the side of almost every issue that is considered unspeakably cruel a generation later.

Slavery, segregation, women’s suffrage, child labor protections, labor rights, Social Security, interracial marriage, homosexuality, civil rights legislation, same-sex marriage, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, prohibition, environmental protections, public education expansion, healthcare reform, voting rights expansion, immigration rights, disability rights, reproductive rights, minimum wage laws, workers’ compensation laws.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Saturday April 26, 2025 @01:19PM (#43805420)
>> rely on immediate emotional values....Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist

> considered unspeakably cruel

You're not disagreeing on any pragmatic basis, just the emotional one. Like I said.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by usernomdeguerre on Saturday April 26, 2025 @02:19PM (#43805904)
They gave you a whole list of pragmatic policy differences, are you ignoring them or in agreement?
Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Saturday April 26, 2025 @03:05PM (#43806237)
No, they gave a list of policy differences - and justified them with an emotional argument: "cruel". They said nothing about the pragmatic justification of them. Which is exactly my point: the left tends to operate on ideological emotional values.

They could have said things like 'reproductive rights leads to X goods for the populace' or 'prohibition was a net positive in Y ways' or 'minimum wage laws are shown to improve GDP by Z amt on average' - but they didn't. They used an emotional argument. Like I said they would.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by Erem on Sunday April 27, 2025 @12:11AM (#43809376)
They used examples where almost every reasonable American knows what the right and wrong side of history ended up being. He doesn’t need to teach us with detailed policy that slavers ended up on the wrong side of history — we all know.
Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by generalizations on Sunday April 27, 2025 @12:22AM (#43809407)
The point he's responding to is about epistemology - how the conclusion is come to, not what the conclusion is.

And 'wrong side of history' (bandwagon fallacy) and references to 'cruelty' (appeal to emotions) is really, really bad epistemology.

Re:ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Pr... by kj4211cash on Saturday April 26, 2025 @02:55PM (#43806186)
"Not to learn from history"? We're in the twilight zone now. It's the right wing that is currently enacting tariffs, scapegoating immigrants, pushing for appeasement in Ukraine, etc.

The Republican party traded logic for populism long ago.