News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
[dead]
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by sedev on Friday April 25, 2025 @10:59PM (#43800519)
> only accepting primary sources from journalists directly involved in the controversy

This is false. The talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gamergate_(harassment_cam... lays it out clearly: because of the nature of Gamergate (misogynist harassment campaign), the page about Gamergate is heavily scrutinized in order to make sure that all source cites follow the same reliable-source rules that are in force across all of Wikipedia. Please don't lie about Wikipedia.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:06AM (#43802021)
This is a lie. Wikipedia directly excluded reliable sources that countered and only cites sources that are as biased as possible for that article. Like i said, literally just switch the language to japanese, translate back to english and you will get a completely different set of information that is far less biased.

Gamergate is also not a misogynist harassment campaign. Please don't spread lies and misinformation, thanks and try to be more honest and less of an idealogue.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by 20after4 on Saturday April 26, 2025 @06:57AM (#43802518)
Perhaps it is your perspective which is biased and that leads you to project that accusation towards the wiki (and the gp commenter here)
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by scarab92 on Saturday April 26, 2025 @08:45AM (#43803108)
I think their comment is fair.

Wikipedias policies to promote neutrality are often counter productive.

Because neutrality is hard to define, what these policies actually do is progressively raise the effort required to keep or remove a particular point of view. Unfortunately, requiring more effort also means substituting the point of view of knowledgeable but time poor and inexperienced contributors, with the point of view of time rich chronic contributors and admins. The result is that instead of neutrality, you actually select for the strongest held points of view of a small ingroup of chronic users. The viewpoint diversity of such users is extremely low, which is why you’ll notice all controversial topics tend to lean a certain way.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by rafram on Saturday April 26, 2025 @08:53AM (#43803160)
Wikipedia presents consensus as a proxy for the truth. Pretty sure the consensus on GamerGate is that it was a misogynistic harassment campaign.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @06:48PM (#43807926)
Then why are other language articles completely different? Have you gone and checked? Are all the other articles just wrong? Why is the "consensus" for the gamergate article citing direct primary sources that were involved and attacked by gamergate instead of reliable and impartial secondary sources? Nobody has even bothered addressing any of questions or points i brought up yet. Because they break the narrative.

The way the article is written is arguably biased and irrational on it's face, when reading it you should get the feeling of something being amiss and information being excluded. Sometimes you can just tell when writing is biased based on the language, it's a pattern that's good to learn.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by 20after4 on Monday April 28, 2025 @02:34AM (#43818276)
I tried the spanish and japanese articles, translated back to english. Neither article seemed to be drastically different, at least not in the first few paragraphs. I'm just not seeing the bias, other than a bias towards reality.

There is evidence¹ that the whole gamergate thing was an organized harassment campaign pretty much from the start. Further, the "ethics in game journalism" argument was a calculated and intentional misdirection, used as cover to provide plausible deniability to the harassment campaign.

1. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/new-chat-logs-show-ho...

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by acdha on Friday April 25, 2025 @08:36PM (#43799838)
Do you have any specific examples? You mentioned the Gamergate article but your assertion that it doesn’t reference non-primary sources needs some citations that all of the academic and media sources were directly involved. Since it was a harassment campaign involving journalists, there’s a big question about what a policy would need to look like to prevent someone from attacking a journalist and then saying Wikipedia can’t use their work because they’re involuntarily involved.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:09AM (#43802037)
The entire story of gamergate was a campaign where the ethical problems of the gaming journalism were exposed.

Why would the journalists directly involved in that campaign be allowed to just directly malign and smear their critics and then have that be taken as fact, with no comment whatsoever to their involvement or other sources that disagreed or commented on this? Because that article stands as a beacon of unfairness and misinformation.

The idea that it's impossible to solve this problem is false. Like i mentioned, just check other languages for that article, they were not as completely destroyed by bias.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by intended on Saturday April 26, 2025 @07:11AM (#43802598)
> Q1: Can I use a particular article as a source? > A1: What sources can be used in Wikipedia is governed by our reliable sources guideline, which requires "published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". If you have a question about whether or not a particular source meets this policy, a good place to ask is the Reliable sources noticeboard.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by freen on Friday April 25, 2025 @08:53PM (#43799947)
Anecdote != evidence.

Also, your anecdote is specifically about a social media article about an attempt to use social media spaces to harass people.

Seems extra “special case” to me.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:18AM (#43802080)
Gamergate was not related to harassment, it was a leftist consumer action movement about unethical yellow journalism, that then obviously got smeared by the yellow journalists they criticized.

It's one of those things where honest sources exist but you have to be somewhat good at seeing contradictions and lies, then being willing to discard liars as uncredible. It's not like archives of the supposed "harassment" sites don't exist anymore either, in those days it was mostly progressive leftists posting on the 8chan threads despite being maligned as a right wing center of evil or whatever. Sometimes the truth is just so absurdly and dramatically different from what yellow journalists purport but people are just too lazy and stupid to look into it themselves. After all "who cares it's just video games" (and yet this campaign of dishonesty turned a generation against the dem party in the US and likely contributed to trump's election)

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by santoshalper on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:44AM (#43802186)
I think your view of gamergate is absolutely fucking delusional. I watched it all go down in real time like many of us did. Saying Gamergate was about ethics in games journalism is roughly as accurate as saying the US Civil War was about "states rights". In that it is kinda sorta technically true if you ignore 99% of what was actually happening.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by freen on Saturday April 26, 2025 @02:12PM (#43805852)
Gamergate folks are incredibly silent about other “ethics in Journalism” issues…

Same with all those “free speech wing of the free speech party” folks.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @06:55PM (#43807984)
You mean you watched people writing misinformation articles smearing people in realtime, or were you actually on the hubs where gamergate was organized? There is a big difference between these things, and no there were not people organizing for "misogyny campaigns" the discussion was 99% corruption and ethics focused. Especially in gaming circles of 2014 which were very progressive.

Quite frankly i find people who think there were actually some kind of organized misogyny campaigns in 2014 to be a form of insane, like something breaks inside a person because they need a bogeyman so badly that it becomes a core of their being even though it's incredibly irrational. At the time journalists would just take random twitter people who weren't affiliated with gamergate and hold them up as if they represented the movement. Reminds of me the tactics used against occupy wall street honestly. It's not a rational or reasonable belief.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by lobotomizer on Saturday April 26, 2025 @10:34AM (#43803997)
Pass me the crack pipe brotha
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by nulld3v on Saturday April 26, 2025 @10:48AM (#43804134)
"Gamergate was actually 8chan communists fighting sensasionalist journalism but their message was then twisted and used against them to push people into far-right MAGA."

Amazing... I can't tell if you are trolling or seriously think this.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @06:50PM (#43807942)
Communists no, young progressives yes. It's kind of insane to believe that a majority audience of gamers in the year 2014 would be anything but progressive, at least until the entire media turned on them and orchestrated a misinformation campaign out of a combination of a core of malice then a majority of laziness.
[dead]
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by moshegramovsky on Friday April 25, 2025 @09:20PM (#43800072)
> You'll get a bunch of leftist (because they don't have jobs) volunteer moderators with an agenda.

What do you consider a leftist? Why do you think they don't have jobs?

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by LightHugger on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:15AM (#43802067)
I am not a right ring perspective, i'm left, but because i'm an honest person i'm simply able to point out an article that is composed solely of extremist lies and misinformation. Wikipedia is not the only source and if you fully research the topic you will quickly realize how bad that article is.

The pro-gamergate editors were completely shut out of that article eventually and the article doesn't even mention any perspectives from the other side, it's an obviously biased on it's face article and i'm not sure why you can't just acknowledge that this system is flawed sometimes.

I agree with your premise that WMF has far better anti bias processes than reddit, reddit is a literal worst case scenerio for bias. I disagree with the idea that it's perfect though so i brought up a clear example of an extremely biased article that is still messed up to this day. I do suggest swapping to the japanese wiki article and just comparing the quality of information, it's really cool.

Also i vouched for your post, not sure why it was flagged, mine was as well.

Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by santoshalper on Saturday April 26, 2025 @05:45AM (#43802191)
We can't acknowledge it because we think you are 100% dead wrong and you're trying to retroactively gaslight us into believing Gamergate wasn't primarily toxic far right-wing trolling, which it was. I don't need to base my opinion on what Wikipedia says because I was there and you are delusional.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by ryandrake on Saturday April 26, 2025 @12:31PM (#43805037)
Can you point out any factual errors in the article, with sources that demonstrate the error?

> The pro-gamergate editors were completely shut out of that article eventually and the article doesn't even mention any perspectives from the other side

The "pro-gamergate" perspective is described in the very first sentence under "Purpose and goals":

    The most active Gamergate supporters or "Gamergaters" said that Gamergate was a movement for ethics in games journalism, for protecting the "gamer" identity, and for opposing "political correctness" in video games and that any harassment of women was done by others not affiliated with Gamergate.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by eGP9jDq_nw on Saturday April 26, 2025 @07:34AM (#43802694)
for those doubting this claim, the secret mailing list "GameJournoPros" used by journalists to collude is not even mentioned once, and is akin to scrubbing the holocaust article of the word "jew"
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by rafram on Saturday April 26, 2025 @08:56AM (#43803177)
You’re telling me there was a secret… listserv?! Truly, this conspiracy goes all the way to the top.
Re:Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. atto... by immibis on Saturday April 26, 2025 @12:02PM (#43804772)
Is that like a secret Signal chat for the defense secretary's family?