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Re:Pope Francis Has Died by harshreality on Monday April 21, 2025 @06:37AM (#43750327)
> For a point of comparison, after Nazi Germany collapsed the Western allies had German civil servants fill questionnaires to assess their level of involvement; of 3.6 millions surveyed, just 1% were charged as "main culprits" (Hauptschuldige), whereas a third were designated as "followers" (Mitläufer), who basically contributed to the regime's crimes but nontheless got to keep their jobs after the war. I'd argue the allies were way too lenient on Germany, but the current Israeli approach (kill them all) is too extreme and will not work because its objectives are unrealistic.

You're comparing the Allies' actions after WWII concluded with Israel's actions in the midst of conflict.

Are you forgetting the Dresden firebombings?

Are you really suggesting that Israel will continue to "kill them all" if Hamas surrenders? That's not even what Israel is doing now, although they have the military capability to do so if they wished.

Re:Pope Francis Has Died by regentbowerbird on Monday April 21, 2025 @06:48AM (#43750393)
I'm comparing the stated goal of Israel (dehamasification) with denazification.

The allies' strategic bombing campaign was intended to destroy industry and infrastructure and was not aimed at any political group in particular, whereas Israel can and does target precise buildings associated with Hamas (see the "Lavender" program that provides bombing targets).

> That's not even what Israel is doing now

There's no real way to know since Israel does not allow journalists in Gaza, but the international court of justice found there was sufficient possibility that an investigation should be carried out. Are you so much better informed than them that you can be sure?

Re:Pope Francis Has Died by harshreality on Monday April 21, 2025 @07:47AM (#43750838)
During WW2, much rhetoric within and between the Allies was about eliminating the Nazi threat. Things change once there's a conclusion to a hot war and you can start evaluating people individually because they're not (hopefully) shooting back at you anymore.

The ICJ is empathetically captured by the suffering of innocent Gazans. Nevertheless, the suffering of innocent Gazans is not Israel's problem as Israel is trying to prosecute a war against Hamas, as long as Hamas is intentionally hiding behind and under civilians and civilian infrastructure, and as long as Israel isn't intentionally bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure without a justifiable military target behind or underneath them. The idea that the ICJ is going to second-guess every military risk-justification analysis of "we might hit this many civilians, or a hospital, or a mosque, to get a few known Hamas militants or a weapons cache" is absurd. I don't know if Israel is getting it right. I do know that the ICJ can't possibly get it right, because they will disbelieve everything Israel says, and believe most Hamas-influenced Gazan representations.

Israel could have carpet bombed Gaza without warning anyone to move, without doing roof knocking etc. But they did warn, and they got roasted by the international community for being so inhumane as to herd people out of their homes. Israel just can't win in the court of Palestine-sympathetic international opinion.

You asked whether Israel will kill millions to avenge thousands.

It doesn't seem as much like vengeance, as a refusal to continue to sit and do nothing while Hamas uses, or tries to use Israel for Qassam rocket target practice. (Iron dome and Iron Beam aren't perfect, and I'd expect low-flying IED drones if this conflict continues.)

The Gaza Health Ministry (which is basically Hamas propaganda) estimates 50k dead. How do you see the death toll getting into the millions, unless you think Israel is going to abandon its current tactics and start massive bombing campaigns in areas without warning people first, or unless the war goes on for decades?