> Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous.

Your comment embraces and spreads the powerlessness they want you to feel and spread.

Of course you can stop them - like any other negotiation in life, especially non-friendly ones, you need to make it in Trump's interest either by carrot or stick. Trump has interests; identify them and identify your power in those regards ('power and interest' is the term), and use it.

Also, stop helping them make DOGE the scapegoat. It's Trump.

DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous.

What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? What power? Resigning? Because on the Defense side of the government the best leverage that some teams have found is mass resignation, meaning that nothing happens.

There is no negotiating with bullies, it merely breeds more concessions.

> DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous.

DOGE follows Trump's direction and acts on his behalf, as you must know. They make a big deal out of DOGE so Trump's name is less attached to these actions. Then they can take much of the blame with them when they go away, with Trump and the GOP blaming them for 'excesses'.

> Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous.

> What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys?

You don't understand how negotiations work. Everyone has interests, strengths and weaknesses, and power. You need to make it in Trump's interest to keep the CVE program.

Everyone saying they are helpless, and that anything else is ridiculous, are panicking. Very unfortunately - dangerously - many people legitimize the panic. It's so normalized that it's "ridiculous" not to panic.

Every day you continue this behavior, you fall further and further behind and lead others in that direction. Will you wake up in time?

I don't think there's any reason to believe that Trump is mentally competent to understand what's happening here or engage in any kind of meaningful negotiation.

Currently the "discussion of leverage" you are talking about is out of the hands of the leaders who run these programs.

The amount of disrespect you have shown for someone that is just telling you 99% of federal workers have absolutely no leverage says a lot.

Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy? When did you guys forget about protests and rallies?

It's just not practical to organize a rally to save a niche cybersecurity program. People are busy protesting to protect Medicaid and keep themselves out of foreign gulags, they can't divert the attention to CVE.

That's fine, protests aren't surgical tools anyway. As long as people are protesting, it's OK.

> Isn't the US supposed to be the birthplace of modern democracy?

I would not dare not mention the revolutions in England and in France. And before that some Greece city states, and definitely Rome. The US declaration of independence is just another point.

> Currently the "discussion of leverage" you are talking about is out of the hands of the leaders who run these programs.

That's an assertion without any any argument. It means nothing.

> The amount of disrespect you have shown for someone that is just telling you 99% of federal workers have absolutely no leverage says a lot.

What does it say? Why is such a person somehow special?

> You need to make it in Trump's interest to keep the CVE program.

This guy is ~80 years old and bragged about "person, woman, man, camera, TV." He recently got into a Tesler and exclaimed "everything's computer!" Have you seen the way his aids explain executive orders to him (like a child) before he signs them?

He doesn't have the foggiest notion of comprehension of what the CVE program is, or how it would benefit him. Unless you're greasing his wheels, it's not going to happen.

he sure understand two things.

one it costs the us and is needed by everyone, so he thinks but paying it someone will pick it up and then the us will be the free loader.

second, he understands that helps he and his pals wash dirty money.

He's convinced you to quit and let him do whatever he wants. That's the problem.

I'm curious by what means you think Trump can be bargained with.

Do you mean things like handsfull of like-minded countries selling t-bonds? No one in the R party has any leverage, and it's not clear that even a few US billionaires could exert any influence.

Do you really think Trump has ever heard of "CVE" or could comprehend them?

No, it's definitely DOGE doing all of this. Each one of these young fools need to be named and shamed. The level of damage they have done is unprecedented. They will, in their later years, hopefully look back at this time in their life with a great deal of shame and embarrassment.

I have the feeling that there will be no redemption arc for those ones and the repenting would be for show before a court of public opinion.

I'm going to be to the point here, if you guys over there don't start to heavily push and organise, and I said it already, you're one Reichstag fire away from something very bad, and from my point of view, there is probably one kristallnacht pending in the mix.

This is not a hyperbole and if someone wonders why this has relevance to the discussions, in this case most of the people around here are blue team, and it does feel like the red team has already taken anything that wasn't attached and now taking the time to take what's bolted on...

I guess the silver lining of all this, is in their hubris, they forgot the bread and games motto, so they're might still be a chance to turn things around somewhat... But the window is closing at an impressive speed.

I'm an Australian. We have a guy called Clive Palmer, who has formed a party called (no joke) the "Trumpet of Patriots". It's certain nobody will vote for him. The opposition leader married himself to MAGA (and close to Trump) and now it appears like this will prevent him from winning.

The rest of the world is mostly against Trump.

It needs to be the "shame and embarrassment" Nazis felt at the end of WWII and not the traditional shame and embarrassment they are used to feeling after losing the civil war and Jim Crow laws. It will just happen again in a generation otherwise.

Nazi did not felt shame and embarrassment. They felt loss. They felt to be weak. Nazi and Germans felt sorry for themselves after the WWII. The feeling of sorry for stuff they have done to others is something Germany found a bit later, largely due to Nuremberg and general policies not allowing it to stay hidden.

Forget about them feeling sorry for anyone but themselves. They will feel resentful and as if they were being treated unfairly even when actual clear criminal investigation happens.

You don't think they are carrying out Trump's goals? They are just working independently? The great similarity between their actions and Trump's goals and methods is coincidental?

Why are you protecting Trump, the President, from responsibility?

No, blaming "someone inside DHS" is what makes no sense. It 100% makes sense to blame DOGE and actual perpetrators. You can stop them only if you start to blame those who do the stuff you dont like instead of blaming everyone else except them.

Why wouldn't you blame Trump?