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Re:Usability Improvements in GCC 15 by JoshTriplett on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:52PM (#43645794)
Don't forget that the LLVM folks actually went to GNU and offered it to them, and they failed to pay attention and respond. (It's not even that they responded negatively; they just dropped it on the floor completely.) There's an alternate history where LLVM was a GNU project.

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm glad that that didn't happen, even though I have mixed feelings about LLVM being permissively licensed.

Re:Usability Improvements in GCC 15 by alienthrowaway on Friday April 11, 2025 @03:38AM (#43651382)
Gcc is the flagship of the GNU Project - allowing an endrun of the the spirit of the GPL in gcc was never going to happen. The project paid more attention than you give them credit for because allowing closed source plugins and improvements that use gcc as a frontend is anathema to Free software.

There's an impedance mismatch between people who think gcc should have maximized user utility vs. the actual GNU philosophy. The actions of the gcc project make a lot of sense if you consider the FSF/GNU are monomaniacal about maximizing users freedoms, and not popularity, momentum or other ego-stroking metric.

Re:Usability Improvements in GCC 15 by JoshTriplett on Friday April 11, 2025 @04:40AM (#43651654)
Whether you care about number of users or not, there's value in considering whether what you're doing is actually advancing the cause of Free Software or not.

GCC today has a very interesting license term, the GCC Runtime Library Exception, that makes the use of runtime libraries like libgcc free if-and-only-if you use an entirely Free Software toolchain to compile your code with; otherwise, you're subject to the terms of the GPL on libgcc and similar. That is a sensible pragmatic term, and if they'd come up with that term many years ago, they could have shipped libgccjit and other ways to plug into GCC years ago, and the programming language renaissance that arose due to LLVM might have been built atop GCC instead.

That would have been a net win for user freedoms. Instead, because they were so afraid of someone using an intermediate representation to work around GCC's license, and didn't do anything to solve that problem, LLVM is now the primary infrastructure people build new languages around, and GCC lost a huge amount of its relevance, and people now have less software freedom as a result.

Re:Usability Improvements in GCC 15 by steveklabnik on Friday April 11, 2025 @12:53PM (#43655912)
> allowing an endrun of the the spirit of the GPL in gcc was never going to happen.

You're right:

https://gcc.gnu.org/legacy-ml/gcc/2005-11/msg00888.html

> If people are seriously in favor of LLVM being a long-term part of GCC, I personally believe that the LLVM community would agree to assign the copyright of LLVM itself to the FSF and we can work through these details.

Re:Usability Improvements in GCC 15 by pjmlp on Monday April 14, 2025 @06:14AM (#43679746)
Also note that GCC adoption only took off when Sun introduced the concept of UNIX developer SDK, where developer tooling was an additional license.