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Re:The best programmers I know by 9rx on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @12:10PM (#43633699)
In that case it was more that the ORM was, under certain conditions, silently corrupting data and whatnot. It needed a major overhaul to address the issues and at that point a rewrite that didn't deviate too far API-wise was seemingly the easiest/fastest way forward. Like the original comment asserts: Choose your libraries carefully.

But in your example, even if an ORM doesn't provide native breakout functionality, it should be obvious that you can maintain a bespoke path to the database for cases where the ORM doesn't fit. Where that isn't obvious to someone, perhaps 'creating their own ORM' isn't the waste of time you make it out to be, but is actually necessary education?

If you are No-name CRUD Company you're probably not hiring the million dollar per year devs who have learned all the lessons. You kind of have to accept that you are working with budget workers and learning on the job is going to take place, even if you wish that weren't the reality you face.

Re:The best programmers I know by pc86 on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @01:15PM (#43634641)
TIL anyone making less than $1M/yr is budget. I was specifically calling out being able to do so (easily) from within the ORM itself, so I think implying that I don't know you can just call the database directly is a bit of a strawman.

At the risk of going off on a tangent, the median dev salary is something like $100-150k/yr. So half of devs in the country make less than that. Gergely Orosz has a great discussion of this.[0] $1m/yr TC is the top 0.01% of the top tier of companies. Some FAANG-level tech firms are here but otherwise it's almost entirely IB, HFT, hedge funds, that sort of thing. I'd be shocked if anyone making close to $1m/yr TC is ever touching an ORM in their day job.

[0] https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/trimodal-nature-o...

Re:The best programmers I know by 9rx on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @01:42PM (#43634965)
> I was specifically calling out being able to do so (easily) from within the ORM itself

But, as I said, even if it isn't built-in, it doesn't make any difference, does it? Either way there is no reason to throw a perfectly good ORM out the window just because in some cases it isn't the right tool for the job. Surely you agree? That was my interpretation of the intent of your earlier comment.

While it may be true that ORMs today are of SQLite quality, the original commenter's point still stands: You need to make sure that is the case, else you are going to quickly wish that you did write it yourself.

> So half of devs in the country make less than that.

You may take things a bit too literally, but if you want to go down this road, do you truly believe that half of all devs have learned all the lessons there are to learn in software? Color me skeptical. 0.01% is likely even pushing it.

Re:The best programmers I know by fragmede on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:55PM (#43645838)
it's not $1m TC but $1m cost to the company, all in, which is still high, but not the top 0.01%