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Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by yieldcrv on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @05:07AM (#43619692)
There are large protests of the fragile Israeli coalition government, by Jewish Israeli citizens, in Israel, every day. Specifically over this unpopular war. They flared up in size after the most recent cease fire ended.

It means that the global unpopularity of this war by non-Jewish non-Israeli people was always worth validating.

The culture of deflection in response to non-jewish people criticizing the exact same things that Jewish Israeli citizens are is just a meme worth ignoring. The general idea is that there is a belief that non-jewish people worldwide are thinly hiding a goal of eradication. A lot of Jewish and Israeli people are taught that from a young age, so its not easy for them to tell when people are only criticizing the exact same government policies that they are, with the same level of nuance.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by unruffled4079 on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @06:24AM (#43620077)
Would you be able to explain how

> A lot of Jewish and Israeli people are taught [that non-jewish people worldwide are thinly hiding a goal of eradication] from a young age

this works? I'm not Jewish or Israeli, and would like to understand whether it's taught through religion or culture. And what "eradication" means in this context.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by jfengel on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @10:42AM (#43622358)
It's part of the Passover seder. One line reads:

"In every generation, they rise up against us to destroy us, but the Holy One, Blessed be He, delivers us from their hands"

Even before the Holocaust, there was plenty of support for that: the Inquisition, pogroms, the Ghetto, expulsion from various countries throughout the Middle Ages.

It resonates even more now: first the Holocaust, then a stream of wars against the new state of Israel, and then a campaign of PLO terrorism. The Holocaust leaves a lot of highly personal reminders: relatives with tattoos, Holocaust Torahs kept in synagogues because they were wiped out.

This is reinforced in schools and synagogues, but it begins in the family.

It's impossible to ignore, because it is a genuine problem. This is not just a fiction; the oppression is real. "Eradication" means just that: it was in living memory that a global power came very close to global genocide, and Hamas has genocide written into its charter.

That does not excuse the current horrors of the Israeli government. I was brought up with all of this, and am very predisposed to be understanding of the Israeli fears. But I cannot excuse this any more.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by yieldcrv on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @10:45AM (#43622395)
There is a supporting history. Over the last millennium, Jewish people’s presence has aggravated their host country or they’ve been scapegoated many times. Resulting in a need for their swift exodus.

It is very recent that the West was favorable to Jewish people at all, on a country by country basis. With the most inroads occurring after some sects of Christianity latched on to the recreation of Israel as being part of their own prophecy.

So there is an understanding that even this is thin acceptance and symbiotic where both groups are pawns to the other without much care for understanding each other.

But there are people that question the government policies of Israel without questioning its right to be a government at all.

I can see why it’s ambiguous to distinguish, and the best defense is to invalidate opinion. Its just disingenuous when the stated opinions they are invalidating are the same opinions they and others hold within Israel and some Jewish communities: The military campaign is unpopular. The coalition government has no coherent way to meet its goals. Every choice the IDF makes isn’t “Hamas’ fault”.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by BenGosub on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @05:42AM (#43619877)
It's a genocide it's not a war
Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by weatherlite on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @10:11AM (#43622000)
> The general idea is that there is a belief that non-jewish people worldwide are thinly hiding a goal of eradication. A lot of Jewish and Israeli people are taught that from a young age

It is reality, even if you aren't taught that from young age (I don't think I was), you will get the memo from reality. There is a very sizable coalition of radical Islam together with the hard left to "end Israel", "from the river to the sea", "end Apartheid" or whatever they choose to call it. It is a global movement counting billions of people. The rest of humanity doesn't really care either way, they have their own problems to think about.

And while it is not necessarily "eradication" in the physical sense (though when calls to destroy Israel come from the mouths of extreme Muslims who support Hamas and Hezbollah it sure sounds like it), but even when the talk is meant as a peaceful end to Israel - most Jews have no illusions they will be able to keep living in Israel after that. The idea of national destruction is very unappealing to Israelis, just as it is unappealing to Palestinians or people living in Greenland.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by aqme28 on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @10:50AM (#43622451)
"end Apartheid" might be an absolutely legitimate goal.

"end Apartheid" doesn't mean the eradication of Jewish people. To state that it does only gives ammunition to actual antisemites.

Re:Gazans tell BBC of torture in Israeli detention by weatherlite on Tuesday April 08, 2025 @11:18AM (#43622806)
> "end Apartheid" might be an absolutely legitimate goal.

The goal is not really to end any Apartheid, it is to end Israel's Zionist character. They're generally not advocating for a 2 state solution. As I said, eradication is definitely not a must, different people mean different things. Some (but not most) definitely mean eradication of Israeli Jews while others want the end of Jewish nationhood in the region without bloodshed.