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Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by alabastervlog on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @09:23AM (#43482024)
We have both real examples of specific common models, and depictions (photos, sales art) of same, and not just ones regarded as “high end” (which, we’re talking outdoor workwear in an age when that wasn’t remotely fashionable like it would be after the 1950s, so there weren’t really fancy versions of these) and the fabric is better, and the construction more involved and durable, than that in an $50+ chambray shirt today. For a (supposedly) inflation-adjusted $18.

Most of the examples I’ve found that approach the originals in quality are $200 or more. I want to know if anyone tracks one down for less than $150, because I’d likely own 2-3 of them before the year’s out if they do. 8x the supposedly inflation-adjusted price of the original would be, from what I can tell, a bargain.

Your note that a dress per year felt like a lot is exactly my point: if I had to pay $150 per blue-collar work shirt I’d feel like I was doing pretty great if I could responsibly buy a couple per year. IOW, buying similar quality goods, our alleged improvements in QOL are significantly diminished.

[edit] if you look into what decently-constructed (not even finely-made! Just, like, not shit) dresses made with fabrics that aren’t mostly or entirely plastic cost, they’re hundreds of dollars today, even for fairly simple ones, especially midi-length or longer (as there’s more fabric than in a mini)

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by kasey_junk on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @09:56AM (#43482329)
Here is an American made work shirt for $70 https://www.allamericanclothing.com/collections/mens-long-sl... it's in khaki not blue and the cloth is twill vs chambray but thats because twill is a better fabric for the use case.

And as a reminder blue collar work was _an improvement_ over the default which was agricultural work. Most workers in the US could not afford to buy clothing from a catalog in the 1930s.

The dress comparison was as opposed to her peer group who wore clothes made out of seed bags.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by pwndByDeath on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @10:45AM (#43482808)
Perhaps the true inflation tracks the price of equivalent shirts
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by alabastervlog on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @01:29PM (#43484569)
If you're saying there are equivalent shirts today that are as good but just in different styles and materials, I don't think there are, not at the inflation-adjusted ~$18. $50, and maybe you're getting somewhere. Maybe.

I do get that the specific type I called out might have some functional equivalent that's simply a different style & material but is just as good, but not that cheap, they don't. Under $150, probably, sure. Under $50? No.

This suggests that the cost of clothing has inflated at more like 3x the nominal inflation rate, despite the existence of $18 (or cheaper!) shirts—the inflation was eaten up by worsening quality, rather than showing up in prices, but like for like, even with a generous "functional equivalent" accounting, the change was more like $0.79 -> $50+ than $0.79 -> ~$18—your "equivalent" dollar under the latter calculation in-fact buys less.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by kasey_junk on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @02:20PM (#43485174)
You are talking about the hedonic adjustments which is a hugely studied part of inflation calculations. For any way to calculate broad inflation you’ll find products that inflated more than the calculation (and less).

Your own example is an interesting one because a) it’s very hard to compare clothing by objective quality b) you’re changing the goal posts. I’ve found a carhart product that nearly exactly matches your specification and msrp’s for $40. I’ve seen discounters selling it for $25. Which is getting very close to your specific target.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by pwndByDeath on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @02:14PM (#43485104)
I'm curious what other things when compared for quality would have a higher than 'normal' inflation. Perhaps we've been suffering a higher inflation across many 'dimensions'. If CPI doesn't control for enshitification, we technically have more inflation than we believe
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by TeMPOraL on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @06:50PM (#43488372)
This would still undercount the other hidden part of inflation, which is loss of quality of services. It's sometimes subtle, but once you see it, you'll keep spotting it - the main service itself may not get worse, but everything around it does. Worse seating in the waiting rooms, magazines replaced with first-party ads, worse decor or lack of it, less complimentary items, dark patterns aimed at reducing usage of side offerings without eliminating them, adding complicated online processes, etc.

My pet peeve is automated checkouts and ordering kiosks. These save stores and venues on labor costs by making the customers do the work for the store. For free, and disproportionally wasting customers' time.

(In many cases this applies to self-service in general.)

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by throwaway96865 on Thursday March 27, 2025 @10:26AM (#43494019)
> My pet peeve is automated checkouts and ordering kiosks. These save stores and venues on labor costs by making the customers do the work for the store. For free, and disproportionally wasting customers' time.

Based on what I’ve heard, it may be wasting time somewhere like Germany where the staff are scanning your items at lightning speed. However, here in Poland self-checkout is where you go to save time. Human-staffed checkouts are and have always been slow like an iceberg. Now and before self-checkout was ever a thing. I was relieved when they were introduced, precisely thanks to the time saved. I hate waiting in queues.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by TeMPOraL on Thursday March 27, 2025 @01:21PM (#43495754)
I live in Poland. The experience you attribute to Germany, is what I experienced in Poland. Still experience, on the off chance there's a human behind the register.

All self-checkout machines are moody and lock up if you so much as look at it funny. It would be somewhat acceptable if there was always a dedicated employee delegated solely to assist and unlock the machines, but stores cheap out even on that.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by AuryGlenz on Thursday March 27, 2025 @03:45PM (#43497342)
In America it always greatly depended in the store. Wal-mart, for instance, would get the worst workers, and checking out was insufferable. Target was better.

Now, you just need to deal with individual people being slow partially because it’s not their job and partially because it’s a lot less efficient to have a little kiosk vs a conveyer belt. Not to mention if you want to buy something that a store locks up you need to wait for them to go get it. Progress?

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by cratermoon on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @09:35AM (#43482131)
> a dress per year

Also keep in mind that the quality and durability of that dress, and similarly-priced clothing of the era, made it possible to not need to buy new every season. That dress could be expected to last for years, longer with simple repairs.

Also, shoes are even worse than clothing for declining price/decreasing quality.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by alabastervlog on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @09:43AM (#43482205)
You’re not kidding, I can’t friggin’ believe how bad $70 sneakers can be these days. My shitty wal mart kids’ shoes for $10 or whatever in the ‘90s held up way better than a lot of these.

Oddly, the low end getting worse while prices also go up has made $200+ good leather shoes more attractive, LOL. Though I expect we’re about to either see most of those companies go out of business, or hike prices $100 or so in a short period of time, given post-2021 labor price increases. They’ve got to be hurting for margin right now.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by vel0city on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @12:30PM (#43483996)
I have two pairs of sneakers I wear for a lot of things. They get at least weekly use. Both are >4 years old. One was a pair of Sketchers I got for $40, the other was some pair that didn't even have a box I got for $9 at Walmart.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by cratermoon on Thursday March 27, 2025 @04:17PM (#43497689)
You don't say how long you wear them, how much you're on your feet wearing them, or how far you move wearing them. Shoes don't wear out (much) from being put on and taken off, and weekly use is light use.

On the flip side, four years is nothing. I have shoes I bought over thirty years ago, and all I've ever done is replace the insoles. Even the laces are original.

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by vel0city on Thursday March 27, 2025 @05:17PM (#43498290)
Trips to the office and general errands, work around the house and yard, walks through the park and neighborhood, playing with the kids at the playground, some light bike riding along with sometimes bike riding as a commute. Normal everyday wear stuff for an office drone. At least weekly, because I switch off between the two shoes (one's more grey and the other is black) and some flip flops depending on the weather for my general everyday wear. Some days I'll wear nicer shoes, some days I'll wear one of my pairs of boots, so its not really an every day thing to wear those shoes but each probably gets at least 2 days a week on average of all day wear.

I'd say over four years of this a few days a week on a $9 pair of sneakers is pretty decent. They'll likely hit at least six or seven before replacement.

And yeah, I have some nice dress shoes that I've had for twenty years that pretty much look like the day I bought them. They get worn like 2-3 times a year. I also have leather cowboy boots I bought over 15 years ago that had their heels replaced a couple of years ago and are otherwise still in great shape. Both were more than $9 though. I think the boots were like $110 back when I bought them at Cavender's. The comment I was replying to:

> I can’t friggin’ believe how bad $70 sneakers can be these days

Even in the 90s my sneakers usually fell apart within a few years, and I rarely even owned $70 sneakers back then even adjusted for inflation. These days I can get sneakers for about $15 that last just about as long as the sneakers I owned in the 90s. That's the equivalent of buying ~$6 shoes in 1990 by many inflation calculators.

These are my cheap sneakers, a little bit different but the same brand and general style:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Athletic-Works-Men-s-Banded-Jogge...

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by bluGill on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @12:33PM (#43484019)
I've been disappointed in my $150 shoes that were made in the US. I'm about ready to get some leather and make my own.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by quickthrowman on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @08:36PM (#43489159)
Unfortunately, it costs $400+ these days to get quality shoes. It’s possible to find cheaper examples, but well made durable leather shoes are expensive if you buy them new.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by tharkun__ on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @11:29PM (#43490127)
We don't need to go back to the 1930s though. I have two pairs of leather winter boots that have lasted for a very long time now. How long these last obviously will depend on actual usage. I.e. keep in mind that these aren't work boots on a construction site. Just regular full leather winter boots for a HN type dude that drove to the train station and then walked to the office etc. plus some use for going on winter walks, going out for groceries, weekend activities etc.

One pair, $230, made in USA. Just looked it up, are now 10 years old. Perfectly fine and at this rate will last another 10, then be resoled and last another 20. These cost $440 now.

The other, which I used more often actually, made in I don't know where, are now almost 20 years old and still perfectly fine as well, tho the outsoles will need work soon.

I basically switch between the two whenever I need to wear some winter boots, except for when it's super cold, then I take out the Baffins, which are the only boots that have kept my feet warm no matter what.

In the same timeframe I've run through regular sneakers of the ~$50 kind from Costco about once per year (and I also keep 2 pairs around so I never have the same ones on two days in a row)

Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by alabastervlog on Thursday March 27, 2025 @12:46AM (#43490469)
Rancourt starts around $200. Their styles lean casual, and their dressier options (and certainly their boots) cost more, but the construction and materials are really good.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by quickthrowman on Friday March 28, 2025 @09:06AM (#43504951)
Rancourt does make nice shoes for under $400, and so does Red Wing. Meermins are a Spanish brand you can get for under $400. Aside from that, it’s $400+ for Grant Stones and $600+ for Aldens, and even higher for Viberg, Edward Green, etc.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by jwagenet on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @10:43AM (#43482793)
The desire to have a diverse and up to date wardrobe has changed whether someone is willing to only have one dress and if it is worth repairing. It’s not that people need to buy new every season, they want to. This puts downward pressure on price and quality.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by bluGill on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @12:35PM (#43484038)
People used to shop at goodwill or consignment shops. As a kid we went to church with a woman who never wore the same dress - it was affordable because she bought and sold on consignment most of the time - basically she was renting everything.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by jwagenet on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @01:10PM (#43484404)
Vintage quality and style is back in, so there is a lot of clothing reuse in hip fashion. However, secondhand only works because people buy a surplus of clothing!
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by bluGill on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @03:10PM (#43485783)
Secondhand only works when people buy clothing quality enough to be worth going secondhand.
Re:All Clothing Is Handmade (2022) by kasey_junk on Wednesday March 26, 2025 @01:00PM (#43484289)
People still do.