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Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by kzrdude on Monday March 17, 2025 @07:35AM (#43387379)
We have to ask ourselves what we want. Because it's not GDP, you can't eat GDP or sleep under it, you can't even withdraw it from the bank. So more directly, how does it influence our life? (Of course GDP influences our life to some extent.)
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by throwawayffffas on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:18AM (#43387696)
I mean you can eat GDP and sleep under it. That's what it measures production.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by bognition on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:29AM (#43387780)
Estimated GDP in 2024 28.9 T vs 2025 of 13.3 T

That’s a huge gain in 20 years. Where is the commensurate equivalent growth in housing, education, healthcare, cheap food, etc…

There is a huge disconnect between GDP increase and the economic pressure the majority of Americans feel.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by throwawayffffas on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:04AM (#43388142)
The richest man in the world in 2008 was Warren Buffett with a net worth of 62 billion dollars. Now with 62 billion you are not even in the top 20. So the growth went into wealth inequality.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by pbhjpbhj on Monday March 17, 2025 @12:50PM (#43390435)
You see the contradiction between this and your previous post?

Here you say we can't eat/shelter better with GDP increases because they aren't distributed; there you said that [spending on] ability to eat/shelter was what they measured.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by TheSpiceIsLife on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:38AM (#43387876)
Looks like that should be 13 T 2005?
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by heresie-dabord on Monday March 17, 2025 @07:55AM (#43387531)
It is generally understood that GDP is a poor measure of what matters to people. The OP should know this.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-...

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by pc86 on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:31AM (#43387797)
It may be generally understood to you, but not to me, and the link you provided says absolutely nothing about GDP.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by forgetfreeman on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:06AM (#43388161)
Not a problem, let's educate you a little. When graphed together GDP growth and real wages in the US show a disparity that clearly indicates that increases in GDP go somewhere other than working Americans. This being the case GDP metrics don't communicate meaningful information about quality of life.

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by AlexandrB on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:50AM (#43389806)
While increases in GDP don't all go to working class Americans, the two are not completely decoupled either. If you look at the small-scale variations in both they match each other pretty closely. I also suspect that it's the working class that would eat any dramatic GDP decrease.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by forgetfreeman on Monday March 17, 2025 @05:05PM (#43392735)
We can at least agree that the working class would be on the receiving end of the worst of the consequences for any flavor of economic downsizing, just like they have been during every other recession, market crash, etc. to date. I would however like to suggest not letting yourself get distracted by the fact that the two lines kinda wiggle similarly. That massive and growing pie slice where the two decoupled is absolutely the larger issue.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by bko on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:30AM (#43387789)
Take pretty much any quality of life thing. Just as one example

Mississippi: The average home size 2,065 square feet

United Kingdom: The average home size is 818 square feet

No, you cannot "eat GDP", but its a useful proxy as it correlates very highly to a lot of things we do care about

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by letier on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:36AM (#43388477)
I wonder how it interacts with life expectancy.

There is a huge difference between Mississippi and the UK: 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females in the UK in 2020 to 2022. 68.6 years for males and 75.2 years for females in Mississippi in 2020 and 67.7 years for makes and 74.3 years for females in Mississippi in 2021. Might go up a bit if you have 2022 numbers, but the difference is huge.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by HideousKojima on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:03AM (#43388730)
Life expectancy differences in Mississippi vs. the UK is largely due to race. Mississippi is about 36% black, and blacks in the US have a 5+ year shorter life expectancy than whites.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by pavel_lishin on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:46AM (#43389757)
How do Black people fare in the UK?

Because if there's no discrepancy, or a smaller one, it seems to suggest that maybe GDP and square-footage-of-your-house is actually not all that important.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by dml2135 on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:37AM (#43389061)
And... why does that matter?
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by HideousKojima on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:40AM (#43389084)
Because the comment I was replying to was wondering if there was any relationship between the GDP per capita of each location and the life expectancy?
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by dml2135 on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:08AM (#43389373)
To me your comment seems to be implying one of two things: 1) Black people are biologically hardwired to have a shorter life expectancy than white people 2) A shorter life expectancy among black people doesn't count -- it's only life expectancy among white people that matters

Could you clarify further if you meant one of these, or if you meant something else that I was not able to pick up on?

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by HideousKojima on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:42AM (#43389712)
Neither, simply that there appears to be little correlation between GDP per capita and life expectancy between Mississippi and the UK, and the lion's share of the difference is due to lower life expectancies amongst blacks (the reasons for their lower life expectancy being something I didn't get into at all).
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by recursive on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:17PM (#43390668)
The black fraction of the population of UK was never mentioned. If you're going to compare the life span of two places, there doesn't seem to be any reason to bring race up. If you're going to bring it up, you need to justify why its relevant. You can probably find lots of demographic lines along which you can split a population to support this argument or that argument. Some fraction of Mississippi is black, as is some fraction of the UK. And each sub-demographic has some life expectancy. Different places have different population mixes, but those mixes are de-facto representative of those places. If the argument is about non-black life spans, your argument would make sense. But if it's about the average lifespan of the region, and the demographic mix is different, it's non-sensical to filter using different cohorts since that mixture difference is a real difference between the regions.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by ropejumper on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:34AM (#43387832)
This requires a justification for why home size is a good indicator of quality of life, or for why it's more important than other indicators.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by bko on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:41AM (#43388524)
I don't know anyone who doesn't want more space. And I couldn't imagine raising a family in 800 square feet.

Do we really need a "source" for everything? Would it be meaningful if you saw some survey asking: Would you prefer your primary residence to be smaller, larger or the same size?

I guess you can say all things being equal larger homes are more expensive so there must be some kind of preference for larger homes that indicates value

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by jpalawaga on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:05AM (#43388740)
Do those same people also care about quality of education, availability and utility of public transit, etc? Or is the size of your home the only factor in what makes somewhere livable?
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by bko on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:12AM (#43389415)
I don't think anyone really cares about "public transit". I think people care how convenient their life is. Why should I care if I take a bus to work or drive? I prefer whatever is best for me.

I would look at cost + time. For instance, if it costs me an extra $2k per year for a car but it saves me 30 minutes round trip, and my time is worth more than $20 an hour (assume work 200 days per year), then car is better. Add the convenience of not having to manage bus schedules and, you know, owning a car, its a no-brainer. I think there's some weird cultish behavior around "public transit" as though it is a good by itself is disconnected to how most people think about this.

So in this case not being able to afford a car or have anywhere to park it is not the win you think it is.

In terms of education, not sure its quantifiable but if you look at money, Mississippi spends considerably more:

In England, secondary school spending per pupil in 2024-25 is projected to be about £7,400 ($9.4k), while primary school spending per pupil is about £6,700 ($8.5k)

In Mississippi its around $12k

Do you have any other data or are you just going entirely off of vibes?

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/annual-report-education-spen...

https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/per-pupil-spending-by-sta...

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by poincaredisk on Monday March 17, 2025 @11:48AM (#43389782)
I explicitly care about "public transport". I strongly dislike cars, like trains and bike lanes, mostly commute by bus. I can't imagine living in a place without a good public transport. I strongly prefer cities and places without too many cars everywhere.

>Add the convenience of not having to manage bus schedules and, you know, owning a car, its a no-brainer.

I assume you live in a place where cars are the default, or the only, mode of transportation? It's not like this everywhere.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by bko on Monday March 17, 2025 @12:39PM (#43390337)
Right, you can like public transport and that's fine. But most people don't care and prefer to have cars. This is especially true if you have a family.

Just two examples:

- food shopping is a lot more expensive if you have to buy local and you're restricted to how much you can carry

- it's kind of rude taking a sick or injured child to the doctor on public transportation

This is obvious if you look at behavior. When people get more money, they buy a car or often multiple cars. When they have a family, people tend to move to suburbs where cars are the primary mode of transportation. Even in cities with good public transportation, like New York, wealthy people still often own cars and use them along with private car service.

People might answer some survey stating they like public transportation but their behavior suggests otherwise. And these surveys are frame against an impossible ideal that does not exist. Look at behavior.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by freejazz on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:04PM (#43390547)
>I don't think anyone really cares about "public transit". I think people care how convenient their life is. Why should I care if I take a bus to work or drive? I prefer whatever is best for me.

Let me take a guess, you are an American, living in a city without good public transit.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by AmVess on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:59AM (#43388086)
Small homes just plain suck. No room to do anything, stuffy, cramped. GF and I moved, rented a house for a month. 1400 square feet. 700 up, 700 down. Tiny and cramped, and it only had one very small bathroom.

We had to sleep on different floors. Master bedroom was barely larger than the queen bed, and no way 2 people could sleep in there because it would get blazing hot in minutes.

Garage was similarly minuscule. GF had a tiny suv and still couldn't open both doors.

I figure 1000 square feet per adult is just about right.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by tjridesbikes on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:22AM (#43388326)
What are you on about? My wife and I live in a total of 1000 square feet in a Boston triple-decker and get along totally fine. We have a basement for storage and a parking space for our car. Somehow, we're both able to work from home without getting in each other's way, have space to do our own things, and temperature regulation is a non-issue with mini-splits. We even have a shared yard!

Maybe the space wasn't laid out well. I would imagine, with only 700 sq ft per floor, a good portion of that is taken up by the stairs. My condo is a flat in a 100-year-old building, built before the "open concept" plans came into vogue. It means out rooms are separated and lets my wife and I do different things in different parts of the house.

People used to raise families in these old buildings with 1000 square feet. Their third-spaces weren't taken over by profit-seeking companies and their interests took them outside the home. 2000 square feet for 2 people seems utterly ridiculous!

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by footy on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:10AM (#43388808)
sounds like a bad space distribution. I live in a 700 sqft apartment and my bedroom is large enough for a bed (where my girlfriend and I absolutely can both sleep) a small desk, a weight bench, a rowing machine, and some normal bedroom stuff (dressers etc)
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by meindnoch on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:32AM (#43389012)
Lol. 1400sqft is cramped in the US? I have a 120m2 house, which would be about 1300sqft, and we have two kids rooms, one master bedroom with its own wardrobe and a bathroom, one shared bathroom, and na american kitchen and living room.

What are you guys even doing? Or maybe the 1400sqft included the garage?

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by Marsymars on Monday March 17, 2025 @02:03PM (#43391109)
> Lol. 1400sqft is cramped in the US?

If they hadn't done the math I'd have suspected a typo.

I'm in a place not all that much larger (1800 sqft) and it feels pretty luxuriously large for just me and my partner. Big open kitchen, two living rooms, 2.5 bathrooms, three bedrooms (one used as an office for myself) and a dedicated office for my wife.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by xandrius on Monday March 17, 2025 @08:52AM (#43388015)
Population density

Mississipi: 24.5/km2

UK: 279/km2

Maybe, only maybe, that has an effect on house sizes?

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by HideousKojima on Monday March 17, 2025 @09:03AM (#43388127)
New Jersey population density: 488/km2

New Jersey median home square footage: 1,740

Doesn't look like it?

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by xandrius on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:22PM (#43390732)
Then if houses are larger and density is higher then one can conclude that the UK has more green spaces, non-developed areas whole NJ is fairly built up? Which also conversely has an impact on quality of living.
Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by tguinot on Monday March 17, 2025 @12:02PM (#43389923)
You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life (especially talented ones) and why almost no american does it the other way around. (The number is ridiculously low in comparison)

People move east to west across the pond, because they want the life offered by the US economy.

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by hollerith on Monday March 17, 2025 @12:08PM (#43389983)
>The number is ridiculously low in comparison

Where are you getting your confidence that that is so?

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by tguinot on Monday March 17, 2025 @03:57PM (#43392165)
Numbers of H1B applicants per country are available. The equivalent for the UK and France is also available.

If you believe there's nearly as many people trying to get out than there is trying to get in, you will be surprised.

The difference (per capita) is a factor of at least 10x

Re:The Alexa feature "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" you enab... by sebazzz on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:25PM (#43390750)
> You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life

I can guarantee you that number is now not growing so much.