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Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Friday March 14, 2025 @11:11AM (#43363411)
Green card holders have a right to free speech.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by MVissers on Friday March 14, 2025 @12:10PM (#43364017)
Doesn't seem that this administration think they do. Pro free speech my ass.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by wahnfrieden on Friday March 14, 2025 @01:24PM (#43364839)
Those rights have been evidently eroded and discarded as of recently
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by sigzero on Friday March 14, 2025 @02:05PM (#43365360)
Green cards come with rules to keep. If you break those rules you can and probably will lose your green card and be deported.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Friday March 14, 2025 @02:18PM (#43365519)
Could you show me where in those rules it says that you're not allowed to support Palestine? Or possibly somewhere in the rules where you forfeit your right to free speech?
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by impute on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:10PM (#43366106)
Green card holders can have their GC stripped for committing crimes. If free speech becomes a crime then the GC is at risk.

Note - I don't agree with it but I think this is the logic the current administration is using.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by lazyasciiart on Saturday March 15, 2025 @01:40AM (#43370265)
No, the administration is using a clause that allows the Secretary of State to designate a person as a threat to the country and strip their green card. They have explicitly said it is not based on any accusation of crime.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by Natsu on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:26PM (#43366270)
On the I-485, which you file to get a GC, you have to answer several questions like this:

> Do you intend to engage in any activity that could endanger the welfare, safety, or security of the United States? > NOTE: If you answered "Yes" to any part of Item Numbers 42.a. - 45., explain what you did, including the dates and location of the circumstances, or what you intend to do in the space provided in Part 14. Additional Information

> Recruited members or asked for money or things of value for a group or organization that did any of the activities described in Item Numbers 43.b. - 43.e.

If you say 'yes' to these, you probably aren't getting a GC. If you falsely say 'no' to these, you may have committed fraud. The reference to Item Numbers 43.b - 43.e can be found by reading the I-485 - https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-4... - but to save you time, it seems to apply to any group doing armed resistance.

That said, mere speech supporting Palestine is, as you say, legal. I also think that it had to be false at the time the statement was made, not something he only did afterwards. But if they can show that a person lied on these questions or any of the other several dozen questions in the application, they can accuse them of obtaining the GC fraudulently and go into removal proceedings.

Reading between the lines, this is what I believe is happening to Khalil based on statements given in articles like - https://reason.com/2025/03/13/mahmoud-khalil-is-an-easy-call... - compare the questions I quoted to their stated justifications in that article:

> The official said that Khalil is a "threat to the foreign policy and national security interests of the United States." > "The allegation here is not that he was breaking the law," said the official. "He was mobilizing support for Hamas and spreading antisemitism in a way that is contrary to the foreign policy of the U.S."

Now, I'm not exactly sure exactly how removal proceedings work, but from what I've read, it seems likely that he'll get some kind of hearing. Hopefully, this gets adjudicated properly, promptly and fairly in a way that respects his first amendment rights, though it is concerning that someone can just be held in detainment waiting for all this.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by int_19h on Saturday March 15, 2025 @02:16AM (#43370397)
He'll get a hearing in immigration "court", an administrative court where the judge is on the payroll of the agency and very few rights you have in normal courts apply. Just to give one example, these are the same courts that have been putting 3-year-old children on trial without representation and calling that "due process".
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by Natsu on Saturday March 15, 2025 @04:03PM (#43374841)
I've been made to understand there should be a hearing before an administrative law judge but I don't know much beyond that. I don't think he gets a jury or anything like that, though.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by mc32 on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:01PM (#43366029)
As some 06JAN "protestors" found out, one cannot claim "protest" what the government deems (domestic) terrorism.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:09PM (#43366094)
January 6th protesters were all arrested with valid warrants and received full due process (until they were all pardoned).

Mahmoud Khalil was arrested solely on the discretion of Marco Rubio (the arresting agents thought they were revoking his visa when he is in fact a green card holder), he has not been criminally charged, he was been provided with little to no contact with his lawyers, as far as I've read he lead protests but there is no evidence he has provided material support to Hamas.

Comparing his situation to the January 6th protestors is the "falsest" of false equivalences.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:19PM (#43366208)
Like most MAGAs, your ability to project false equivalence is unmatched. There were thousands of actual laws, passed by congress, on the books that prohibited the actions of January 6th protesters that were charged. Can you point to a single protestor that was charged that did not unlawfully enter the capitol building? There were thousands of people that were there protesting but never stepped foot in the capitol building. They were not charged. No MAGAts had their right to protest infringed on...they had unlawful entry, criminal tresspass, assault/battery, destruction of property, attempt to disrupt official proceedings, etc.

Mahmoud Khalil has broken no laws, at least according to the accusations of the government. He hasn't even demonstrated support for Hamas...and it wouldn't be illegal even if he did. All he has done is said something that some people don't like. That is not a crime.

That's why this is egregious, where J6 protest convictions are completely logical and morally consistent.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:03PM (#43366040)
"Green cards come with rules to keep."

The whole issue is that the current administration has determined that they are the sole arbiter of those "rules", and they can detain and attempt to deport green card holders without any due process.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by kevin_thibedeau on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:13PM (#43366141)
Promoting a declared terrorist organization isn't a gray area. Nor is abusing schedule 1 drugs but the felon seems to want his African buddy to slide on that one.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Friday March 14, 2025 @03:27PM (#43366279)
Promoting a terrorist organization is legal and well within the boundaries of free speech. It's just not cool, not a good look, and should be shamed into submission.

Providing material support to a terrorist organization is where it crosses into criminal territory.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by worik on Friday March 14, 2025 @04:40PM (#43367054)
> Promoting a terrorist organization...

is not what Mahmoud Kahill (sp?) was doing.

He's was protesting the University of Columbia's support of Israel, who were engaged in a wildly homicidal campaign against his kin.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Friday March 14, 2025 @05:35PM (#43367552)
I’m well aware. Read my other comments in this thread.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Friday March 14, 2025 @08:36PM (#43368825)
You need to educate yourself. This is 100% incorrect. It might be legal for a citizen but not a permanent resident. Endorsing terrorism is a question asked on every Green Card and naturalization application, and will get your deported. Until you are a citizen you will lose your green card for endorsing terrorism.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by aprilthird2021 on Saturday March 15, 2025 @01:37AM (#43370258)
So if a green card holder said "I can see why people support Hamas" should he be expelled? When does just talking about a situation turn into "endorsement" or "support"?
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by trollbridge on Saturday March 15, 2025 @09:46AM (#43372499)
That’s part of the problem here. The federal government can decide by fiat that you did a bad thing before you applied for a green card and then deport you based on that.

They can also say you did a bad thing after and revoke your green card, although it’s a bit more paperwork to do so and requires a higher up to sign off on it (in this recent case, the Secretary of State himself).

I’m not aware of any country that provides blanket free speech for noncitizens.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by aprilthird2021 on Saturday March 15, 2025 @07:50PM (#43375967)
We used to be a unique country when it came to free speech. No reason why it shouldn't be provided to noncitizens too, imo. We let our enemies pump news and media into our country because we believe the people actually run the country.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Saturday March 15, 2025 @01:06PM (#43373775)
Yes, it's enough to get lawyers involved if you're stupid enough to get caught for talking about terrorism like that when you're on your green card.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by aprilthird2021 on Saturday March 15, 2025 @06:56PM (#43375697)
That's ridiculous, imo. If we don't understand geopolitics and can't talk about it, what hope do we have of being good at it?
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Saturday March 15, 2025 @11:48AM (#43373256)
Conditions for admissibility are one thing, and you can be denied entry for any thought crime that the government wants to impose.

Once you are in, you have the same rights to free speech as any citizen, and the same rights to due process as well. In fact, the only thing they can do to curb your free speech is prove in court that you lied on your application. Which is likely how this case will play out after judges rule on how illegal their attempted action is, but as of yet the government has not provided any evidence of him lying on his application.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Saturday March 15, 2025 @01:02PM (#43373748)
No you do not have the same rights as any citizen. You are wrong. You cannot endorse terrorism. If you come into the US on a visa and say "Death to America!" then you will be deported. This has been the case for decades upon decades and in my opinion it is correct. It's called biting the hand that feeds you and that person is taking a spot from someone else who would be grateful for being in the US.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Saturday March 15, 2025 @08:12PM (#43376046)
Your opinion doesn’t matter dude. Decades of jurisprudence and Supreme Court precedent has already conclusively determined that green card holders have the same rights to free speech as citizens. It would take overturning the existing Supreme Court precedent, and destroying the 1st amendment along with it, for that to go away.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Sunday March 16, 2025 @06:53AM (#43378065)
You are completely wrong. Supreme Court found that aliens do not have full first amendment protection, especially around terrorism.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by mindslight on Sunday March 16, 2025 @12:05PM (#43380074)
s/Supreme Court found/Subservient Council declared/g

Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is framed in terms of recognizing independent-existing natural inalienable rights. Citizenship is a complete red herring. The SC has been writing justifications for blatant infringement of natural rights for decades, even before the current neofascist takeover. Take the Bill of Rights as a list of test cases, run down them, and try to find one that is actually passing.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Sunday March 16, 2025 @04:12PM (#43381861)
Wrong.

Reno v. American-Arab Antidiscrimination Committee made it clear that there are no First amendment protections from deportation. This is well established case law for decades now.

https://www.aclu.org/documents/reno-v-adc

This is why talking confidently about things you have absolutely no idea about makes you look foolish.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by mindslight on Sunday March 16, 2025 @05:44PM (#43382686)
Nothing in your comment is a logical response to anything in mine. Perhaps you need to take your own advice, especially with text that's right above where you're typing?
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Monday March 17, 2025 @12:05AM (#43385102)
Probably because you don't understand what I posted. It clearly states that non-citizens do not enjoy First Amendment protections when it comes to deportation, which is exactly what Khalil is going through right now. If you don't understand how this relates, then you need some deep education on what you were posting about.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by mindslight on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:15AM (#43385394)
I understand your comments just fine. Rather it seems that you have a comprehension problem. Your link may state that the Supreme Court has declared that non-citizens [etc]. Pointing out that you're holding up this declaration as if it's some unassailable logical conclusion rather than an arguable policy decree is the crux of my comment.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by blindriver on Monday March 17, 2025 @10:38AM (#43389069)
Ah, so you don’t understand how the judicial branch works. Okay. Regardless of what you want to believe, non-citizens do not enjoy first amendment rights when it comes to deportation. Period. End of story. You can be against this all you want, but Khalil will be lawfully deported and so will any other non-citizens that engage in endorsing terrorism. This is established case law.
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by mindslight on Monday March 17, 2025 @01:18PM (#43390672)
I don't know why you keep jumping to characterize disagreement as misunderstanding. Your apparent belief that the courts somehow represent infallible logic rather than merely a different type of policymaking is exactly why I'm making my point. Like, it's a big deal when a new justice gets appointed, right? They're not just interchangeable cogs.

Pragmatically, yes, Khalil will likely be deported due to having exercised his freedom of speech. This, along with many other current affairs, should be abhorrent to anybody who actually believes in the ideals of individual liberty - regardless of the justifications crafted by the judicial, executive, and fourth estate. And I really don't know what you gain by cheerleading authoritarianism, besides some feeling of smugness of being on the winning team.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by gunian on Saturday March 15, 2025 @12:14AM (#43369933)
false you are a guest unless you were born here two - three generations back you are an outsider forget what the law says if push came to shove you would be killed no questions which is fair if you think about it
Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by darksaints on Saturday March 15, 2025 @11:53AM (#43373306)
> forget what the law says if push came to shove you would be killed no questions which is fair if you think about it

Under no circumstances would any thinking person consider that fair.

Re:I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney who does work for... by gunian on Sunday March 16, 2025 @04:47AM (#43377687)
haha man you got so much to learn about the world fairness only exists in blogs and comments :)