News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by amluto on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:02PM (#43337552)
Two questions:

1. Have you considered building a “microgrid interconnection device” to go with this to allow the batteries to backfeed a house in the event of an outage? (This would require native 240V split-phase capability and/or an auto-transformer.)

2. Have you considered removing the fade-in-when-scrolling abomination on your website?

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by rtkwe on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:45PM (#43337918)
1) Can't be automated without a failover switch to disconnect the house from the grid so it doesn't back feed into the actual power lines outside the house and either break or risk injuring linemen who think a line has been disconnected and isolated.

In addition to that you're feeding energy back in through a much smaller wire so you're limited to the capability of the circuit it's connected to and the devices have to be smart enough to actually limit their output to what the wall can handle. Otherwise imagine you have 2 of these each on 1000W circuits (not a normal circuit but for convenience lets pretend) and you have 1500W of load running elsewhere in the house. One runs out of power because it had a lower charge state when power failed, now unless the remaining UPS limits it's output and browns out everything you're pulling 150% the rated power of your circuit, potentially damaging the wires or the loads you're powering.

This is potentially what's causing fires on nVidia's high power connectors, one connection wears out or is simply loose so more power flows through the remaining pins and it's too much for those wires causing fires/melting the wires.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @07:20PM (#43338171)
Feed power in through one circuit back to the main board, on a different circuit cause a short, main breaker trips, main board is now isolated from the grid.

Technically possible, irresponsible, bad advice, and probably won’t work in most scenarios.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by rtkwe on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @07:43PM (#43338363)
Doesn't work and would likely cause fires.

First the smaller circuits will trip first, that's where the current is actually flowing, there wouldn't be any actually flowing through the whole house breaker in your idea. The main circuit to your house is 100+ Amps (this would be a tiny old circuit most houses have larger main feeds these days) at least. You'd have to feed at that much through the main disconnect for it to trip.

Second even if you could push that many amps through the main breaker somehow to trip it you'd be feeding it through wires designed for 15-20 amp nominal loads which would cook them.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @09:10PM (#43338953)
You’re right, my mistake.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by cwillu on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @10:37PM (#43339396)
> Second even if you could push that many amps through the main breaker somehow to trip it you'd be feeding it through wires designed for 15-20 amp nominal loads which would cook them.

Well, you'd end up tripping the 15-20 amp breaker protecting those wires first.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by rtkwe on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @11:39PM (#43339744)
Probably but I'd rather never send that big of a pulse down a 15/20 amp line at all.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by cwillu on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @02:31AM (#43340460)
It's no more of a pulse than any other dead short that would trip the breaker instantly rather than on a delay.

The fault current that a breaker is required to be able to interrupt is two orders of magnitude larger than we're talking about feeding into the wire, and a 15 amp breaker is designed to _not_ interrupt a 150 amp load until a second has passed (there's a rating curve for this): some loads might require that much current briefly, and the wire in the wall is not going to overheat in that time (that's why the breaker has the curve that it does: to model and therefore protect the allowable heating of the wiring).

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by rtkwe on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @01:06PM (#43345361)
Yeah should be fine but I'd still rather not intentionally try it and count on it. Breakers can fail closed.

Doubly so because it doesn't even do what we want it to which would be to switch the main breaker off.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by cwillu on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @04:35PM (#43347402)
Don't get me wrong, it's still a stupid thing to do, but not because there's any danger to the wiring.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by mulmen on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @07:37PM (#43338323)
This is why we have regulations.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by coleashman on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:06PM (#43337586)
1. I'm actually hopeful we see a generic MID standard emerge with folks like ConnectDER well positioned to support that, so more homes can benefit and households can gain the ability to flexibly try different batteries without ripping out their panels every time. If not, we could definitely build our own (helped build 2 generations of Tesla's MID as well as 3 generations of SPAN Panels with MID functionality). Happy to nerd out on the topic anytime :)

2. Feedback taken hah

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by amluto on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @07:21PM (#43338184)
Huh, I hadn’t seen ConnectDER before. That’s cute. It’s not entirely clear to me how it interacts with power sources in the house, and it’s also not clear to me whether it’s standardized enough so that a different MID could be used in its place with the same inverters/batteries/whatever. I would love to see the industry standardize on a MID protocol well enough for applications like V2H/V2G to work without absurd levels of vendor lock-in.

I suppose another potential issue would be exceeding the capacity of a panel bus. Balcony solar has the same problem, and I guess no one os likely to connect enough balcony solar units to cause a real problem.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by VectorLock on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:03PM (#43338523)
I've seen this "meter plug piggy back vampire tap" scheme used for EV chargers, looks cool to use it for grid tie generators too.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by chadconway on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:37PM (#43338744)
Tesla offers the Backup Switch which is a Meter Socket Adapter(MSA) like ConnectDER.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by chadconway on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:39PM (#43338763)
I agree we need a universal option for both home batteries & V2H. ConnectDER is working to be that standard. Tesla’s Backup Switch was supposed to be open, but unfortunately hasn’t been opened for others to integrate with.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by amluto on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @10:43PM (#43339432)
Whatever design wins should also be available as a standalone device (maybe even something that can be installed inside an existing enclosure if there’s room and maybe even in a circuit breaker format) and not just a meter ring adapter. There are users who, for various reasons, cannot use meter ring adapters as switches. For example:

- Some services cannot be switched at the meter ring. This includes services that use a current transformer separate from the meter. (As far as I know, this includes all services over “Class 320”.)

- Some apartments aren’t separately metered. Fortunately, this is rare.

- Some users will want to back up only part of a service.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by jaggederest on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:55PM (#43337997)
MID = Microgrid Interconnect Device ?

DER = Distributed Energy Resource ?

SPAN = an energy device company https://www.span.io/ ?

Just had to check the definition of some acronyms and thought others might find the results helpful inline.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by chadconway on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:37PM (#43338751)
Correct, Thanks!
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by linsomniac on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:29PM (#43337805)
1: And of course some sort of isolation of the house from the grid when it's back-feeding.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by coleashman on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @06:32PM (#43337820)
Yep, and to clarify Pila includes an MID onboard so while Intentionally Islanded there is no backfeed. But in terms of a whole-home disconnect, I believe we'll see more generic options appear that are somewhat DER-agnostic.
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by VectorLock on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:04PM (#43338533)
>Pila includes an MID onboard

How does that work? Is just not putting energy out the input "plug" count as a MID?

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by chadconway on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:45PM (#43338799)
The Tesla MID is in the Tesla Gateway or Backup Switch meter socket adapter. The Pila MID is onboard inside the battery. Pila can push power back through the plug.

When utility power drops, Pila & Powerwall react exactly the same. They both detect the outage, open the MID, and power load downstream of the MID. In the case of Pila it powers loads downstream / plugged into Pila.

Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by nikau on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @11:19PM (#43339644)
Im having trouble understanding this, if you back feed into a circuit why wouldn't it go out via the beaker and onto the power grid?
Re:Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of... by chadconway on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @08:34PM (#43338721)
Pila team designed the Powerwall & SPAN microgrid interconnect device (MID) / relay that disconnect the home from the grid. So we could, but we believe the value to be the 0 install cost. Installing an MID can cost anywhere from $2500-15,000 depending on complexity.