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A comment on 'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cables under attack?. Parent comment

Re:'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cable... by jajko on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @09:44AM (#43267100)
Yet NS was done by Ukrainian ragtag group (unless there is some new development that I missed on the case), well within the rules of war, not that anybody actually cares about them anymore. And its destruction was a good strategic move for whole Europe, otherwise Germany would be dragging their feet forever. We're happy to do business with almost anybody but if some state keeps stating how it will wipe us out with nukes then no, you don't deserve our money and go f*ck yourself.

Throwing away diplomats for a week, not sure what that would cause, probably 'meh' and continuing if the effort is intentional. Its not like diplomats actually make any serious decisions, they just parrot official policies.

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Re:'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cable... by patrickk on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @10:24AM (#43267763)
Seymour Hersh published a detailed piece outlining his case that it was carried out by the US military with assistance from Norway (who have expertise in that part of the seabed), using the cover of a NATO naval exercise as partial cover:

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the...

I find it more credible that these were the actors involved. Biden wanted to end a future link between Germany and Russia. In Germany there is significant segment of the population that is distrustful of the US (even before the recent Trump shenanigans) and the potential stronger infrastructure ties to Russia. I find it more credible than a ragtag group of Ukrainians did it personally.

Although the truth may never be known.

Edit: for clarity

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Re:'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cable... by ceejayoz on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @10:42AM (#43268056)
In 2023 - a full year into the war - Hersh asserted "the Russians have yet to put any of their main forces" into Ukraine (https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1628898816953909251). He's carried water for the Syrian regime repeatedly; the Nordstream report was pretty widely debunked by available open source intelligence. He's not super credible these days.
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Re:'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cable... by Braxton1980 on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @11:39AM (#43268947)
2022 Pew

"85% of Americans and 77% of Germans see the relationship between their countries as good. This is consistent with recent years, though prior to President Joe Biden’s election in 2020, German views of the relationship were much more negative."

It was as high as 82% positive in 2022. During Trump's first term it was much lower but Trump is an outlier.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/11/27/u-s-germany-re...

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Re:'Shadow fleets' and sabotage: are Europe's undersea cable... by Paradigma11 on Thursday March 06, 2025 @03:04AM (#43277667)
Hersh never provided ANY evidence and the german investigation is pretty conclusive that it was done by Ukrainians. Which is pretty understandable since the main and openly stated purpose of NS was always to circumvent Ukraine. That might be ok in peace time but when at war and your enemy tries to freeze you to death, things look differently.
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