Yes, those of us paying attention knew that when he disavowed Project 2025 he was talking nonsense. But OP said Trump "campaigned on doing exactly these things". He didn't. He campaigned on literally disavowing these things.

"we knew this would happen" !== "he campaigned on doing exactly these things"

Yes, and that's my point. Anyone who truly, honestly "didn't know" doesn't deserve to have a vote.

I’d suggest your viewpoint is a pretty sheltered one. Many people (relatives of mine included, sadly) marinate in a stew of social media algorithms showing them things that confirm their priors and they aren’t exposed to any oppositional media.

Perhaps they don’t deserve a vote. But if they don’t then a lot of voters don’t deserve a vote. And maybe we ought to be asking ourselves “what systems have we set up that have led to such wildly underinformed voters? Are there things we can do to rectify that?” rather than just give up on a significant section of the population. Much easier to write it off as a person’s individual failure than consider it as a societal issue.

(not to mention, “they don’t deserve a vote” doesn’t say a whole lot. They still have a vote even if we decide they’re undeserving. We’re all in it together, like it or not)

I went through this 2016-2020. This time I'm all in on the "leopards ate my face" stance. Instead of feeling bad, I now laugh at people who voted for this and are getting hurt.

I can't help that people are this stupid. And if they hurt themselves in the process, good. It'll be a cleansing.

If only they were only exposed to my propaganda.

"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth and sooner or later that debt is paid"

I don’t see the value in your contribution here. There is an objective truth I think everyone participating in the discussion agrees on: Trump lied in campaign speeches and the reality was clear to those in possession of all the facts. Events post election have indeed confirmed that he was lying.

So what is “my propaganda” you’re referring to? There’s just a truth that some people weren’t made aware of.

I see lying as institutional laziness on the decade scale.

The propaganda is pervasive enough to not realize its there at all. You shouldn't accuse others of being in their own informational bubble without realizing you're in your own. The desire to disenfranchise is also an extreme authoritarian impulse.

I ask again: in the context of this discussion, what is my propaganda? What am I saying that is untrue? You’re saying a lot of vague lofty statements. Be specific.

> The desire to disenfranchise is also an extreme authoritarian impulse.

Just as well I didn’t do that then!

Do you expect your relatives will learn anything from this experience? I expect not. Folks who get conned once are more likely to get conned again.

They didn’t learn anything last time so I doubt it. Part of me wants to say “screw them” but we’re all locked in this room together.

> Anyone who truly, honestly "didn't know" doesn't deserve to have a vote.

We are, unfortunately, a country where the most popular search on Google on election day last November was "Did Biden drop out?".

That's the lack of an educated electorate we have to deal with.