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Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by Calavar on Saturday March 01, 2025 @11:27AM (#43220877)
I'm not a surgeon myself, but when I was in medical school the program director of our local general surgery residency told me that in terms of hand skills 90% of surgeons are more or less average, 10% are masters, and 10% are horrific. (So basically a bell curve with very thin tails.) He also said the correlation between test scores and surgical hand skills was pretty week.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by 3eb7988a1663 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:01PM (#43221224)
How much of surgery is based on dexterity vs knowledge/attention-to-detail? I sort of assumed that most operations are basic plumbing (A connects to B) while there are a few specialized domains that require exquisite deftness.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by rscho on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:17PM (#43221388)
The question is too general. Depends a lot on the kind of surgery you're doing. I guess the answer you're looking for is that anyone could be a surgeon, but not for all kinds of surgery. Also 'basic plumbing' with no room for error is not an easy thing at all.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by Tade0 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:10PM (#43221867)
I'm just relaying what my friend who is studying to become a doctor told me, but by his account there's a wealth of techniques for each procedure or even parts of it, like tying up the dangling bits after kidney removal.

Ultimately it boils down to what a given surgeon practiced in their career.

Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by iancmceachern on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:34PM (#43222802)
Most complex or endoscopic surgeries are (dependent on dexterity)
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by iancmceachern on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:49PM (#43222948)
It's more in that if you improperly connect a to b someone dies, and it's not just a snap fit like a pipe. You need to do things like suture two blood vessels together, using pliers (not the technical term), inside a dark box lit up by a tube, while looking at an upside down TV image of what's going on.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by devilbunny on Saturday March 01, 2025 @04:34PM (#43223916)
It doesn’t have to be upside down; you can just rotate the camera to any angle you like.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by MichaelZuo on Saturday March 01, 2025 @11:40AM (#43221009)
That adds up to 110%…
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by kinggrowler on Saturday March 01, 2025 @11:53AM (#43221145)
He's a surgeon, not a mathematician.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by throwaway127482 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:37PM (#43222177)
Lol literal first four words of the comment said he's not a surgeon
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by SlightlyLeftPad on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:43PM (#43222252)
He’s a brick layer, not a linguist.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by rscho on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:31PM (#43223352)
Which must make it the most MD comment I've seen in a long time. It's hilarious!
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by solardev on Saturday March 01, 2025 @04:34PM (#43223915)
That's just the normal level of performance people expect of their doctors, 24 hours a day, 8 days a week.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by thaumasiotes on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:33PM (#43222792)
> (So basically a bell curve with very thin tails.)

Is this a concept that exists? I thought "thin tailed" and "fat tailed" were defined by contrast to a normal distribution.

Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by Ma8ee on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:38PM (#43222841)
I don't think that "Bell curve" should be interpreted strictly as a Gaussian in this context, but more literally as a curve with a shape resembling a bell.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by Unlisted6446 on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:45PM (#43223505)
I'm pretty sure, yes? Cauchy distribution and student-t have fatter tails than a standard normal distribution.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by rscho on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:29PM (#43223342)
From a doc, it was just a figure of speech. Most docs have no idea what a statistical distribution is.
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by hydrogen7800 on Sunday March 02, 2025 @07:28AM (#43229784)
Kurtosis[0] is a term I came across when dealing with random vibration analysis, but I understand very little if it. The idea of "moments"[1] of various orders to describe a shape of distribution is interesting in general. It sounds analogous to Fourier series, describing a shape/graph with a series of values.

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtosis

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(mathematics)

Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by thaumasiotes on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:32PM (#43234073)
That says exactly the same thing I just said:

> Excess kurtosis, typically compared to a value of 0, characterizes the “tailedness” of a distribution. A univariate normal distribution has an excess kurtosis of 0. Negative excess kurtosis indicates a platykurtic distribution, which doesn’t necessarily have a flat top but produces fewer or less extreme outliers than the normal distribution. For instance, the uniform distribution (ie one that is uniformly finite over some bound and zero elsewhere) is platykurtic. On the other hand, positive excess kurtosis signifies a leptokurtic distribution. The Laplace distribution, for example, has tails that decay more slowly than a Gaussian, resulting in more outliers.

(Emphasis added.)

You can't have a bell curve with thin tails, because a bell curve has standard tails by definition.

Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by hydrogen7800 on Sunday March 02, 2025 @03:07PM (#43234480)
I wasn't trying to correct you. Just responding to your comment asking if this is "a concept that exists".
Re:Resident Physicians' Exam Scores Tied to Patient Survival by fsckboy on Saturday March 01, 2025 @08:16PM (#43226066)
>correlation between test scores and surgical hand skills was pretty week

even if hand skills is orthogonal to test scores, test scores could still be highly correlated with outcomes