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Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by ben_w on Friday February 21, 2025 @04:18PM (#43133105)
The government put in restrictions against using certain powers in the Investigatory Powers Act to spy on members of parliament (unless the Prime Minister says so, section 26), so I think they're just oblivious to the risk model of "when hackers are involved, the computer isn't capable of knowing the order wasn't legal".

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016/25/section/26

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by lozenge on Friday February 21, 2025 @04:49PM (#43133479)
That actually shows they understand and care because they don't want the law to apply to them. They don't care about its effects on other people.
Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by ben_w on Friday February 21, 2025 @05:19PM (#43133741)
No, it shows they're thinking of computers like they think of police officers.

Computer literacy 101: to err is human, to really foul up requires a computer.

They don't understand that by requiring the capability for going after domestic criminals, they've given a huge gift to their international adversaries' intelligence agencies. (And given this is about a computer vulnerability, "international adversaries" includes terrorists, and possibly disgruntled teenagers, not just governments).

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by newdee on Saturday February 22, 2025 @04:08AM (#43137433)
I think it could be for both reasons
Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by soulofmischief on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:35AM (#43138443)
They understand. Signal Foundation's president, Meredith Whittaker, among many other tech leaders, have made it abundantly clear to both the UK and the EU.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/21/meredith-whittaker-reaffir...

If politicians don't understand after such campaigning, it's a choice in willful ignorance, not bad computer literacy.

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by ben_w on Saturday February 22, 2025 @08:58AM (#43138984)
I personally campaigned at the time the law was being debated. Met my local MP, even.

If I'd known about the idea of "inferential gap" at the time, my own effort might not have been completely ignored… though probably still wouldn't have changed the end result as I still don't know how to show lawmakers that their model of how computers and software functions has led to a law that exposed them, personally, to hostile actors.

How even do you explain to people with zero computer lessons that adding a new access mechanism increases the attack surface and makes hacking easier?

The politicians seem to see computers as magic boxes, presumably in much the same way and for much the same reason that I see Westminster debates and PMQs as 650 people who never grew out of tipsy university debating society life.

(And regardless of if it is fair for me to see them that way, that makes it hard to find the right combination of words to change their minds).

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by soulofmischief on Saturday February 22, 2025 @10:31AM (#43139837)
> How even do you explain to people with zero computer lessons that adding a new access mechanism increases the attack surface and makes hacking easier?

You literally tell them that. That's it. As prominent tech leaders have been doing. They either choose to believe experts, or disbelieve them. Or they could get a CS major. They chose option #2. They ostensibly disbelieve experts because what they're hearing does not mesh with what they want.

But let's be honest with ourselves; it's not that they disbelieve them, or don't understand. It's that they don't care. You are giving these people way too much of a benefit of the doubt. They have the tools at their disposal to remove any ignorance.

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by ben_w on Saturday February 22, 2025 @01:57PM (#43141914)
> You literally tell them that. That's it. As prominent tech leaders have been doing.

As it's not working, QED not "that's it".

> You are giving these people way too much of a benefit of the doubt.

They're hurting their own interests in the process. If they were just hurting my interests, I'd agree with you. But this stuff increases the risk to themselves, directly. I may have even told them about https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2015-0204 given the timing.

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by soulofmischief on Sunday February 23, 2025 @02:41PM (#43152457)
> As it's not working, QED not "that's it".

Neither is underestimating your enemy or making excuses for their behavior.

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by ben_w on Monday March 03, 2025 @09:43AM (#43242204)
> Neither is underestimating your enemy or making excuses for their behavior.

Indeed. I do neither, which is why I left the UK.

It would be underestimating them indeed to have remained there — I foresaw, even then, that a story equivalent to this very headline would eventually emerge.

And it would also be over-estimating myself to think that I could change them after the Act when I could not change them before the Bill.

Re:Apple Pulls Encrypted iCloud Security Feature in UK by tehwebguy on Saturday February 22, 2025 @07:53AM (#43138581)
Absolutely not, MPs are not too stupid to process the concept of “a back door is a back door” they simply want this power and do not care about security or privacy if non-MPs. Everyone who voted for this needs to be thrown out of politics, but that will obviously not happen.