News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:16AM (#43068194)
> From a position of world-wide dominance and respect

Why should Americans care what foreigners think of them? Most people in the world aren’t Americans and have values alien to Americans. We’re in the middle of sorting out a disloyal administrative state that needs to be brought to heel. Eggs will get broken to make the omelet. But outside the Acela class (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-are-th...) nobody wants to be governed from DC. Many want more funding for their local schools or bigger social security checks, and they’ll caucus with the Acela class because they must. But they’re not going to worry about personnel changes in government bureaucracies. And their opinion is the only thing that matters.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by digdugdirk on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:34AM (#43068348)
It's not embarrassing reversals, that's the problem. People who want the government to work well for the general population will leave, and those that can't find employment in the private sector will stay. So we're immediately left with a less capable government.

Those who stay will be doing so with the full understanding of the vindictive nature of the current administration. What makes you think these employees will stand up to illegal requests? What makes you think they'll go the extra mile? It's a bad situation all around, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by dukeyukey on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:26AM (#43068282)
Americans should care because America isn't the world. So much wealth and power derives from people seeing you as the good guy. Blowing that up will make America poorer.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:33AM (#43068336)
The US is far less dependent on trade than the average country. We could close our borders to the world entirely and be fine after an initial discomfort.

And nobody has has seen America as the “good guy” in my lifetime. We’re the country that destabilizes Latin American and Asian countries, bombs the Middle East, etc. I used to think there was at least a logic to all that, but it turns out our elites were just ideologues and morons.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by zimpenfish on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:54AM (#43068481)
> We could close our borders to the world entirely and be fine after an initial discomfort.

I'm no economist but a trade deficit in the hundreds of billions[0] suggests otherwise.

[0] Wikipedia says 773B for 2023.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:02AM (#43068536)
Which is just 3.3% of GDP.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by philipwhiuk on Sunday February 16, 2025 @11:39AM (#43069346)
More than enough to push you into a recession even ignoring the reality that your current growth rate is propelled by a very frothy tech sector.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by zimpenfish on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:45AM (#43068896)
> Which is just 3.3% of GDP.

Again, I'm not an economist, bear with me and explain what that's got to do with the trade deficit being a deficit? You could have a GDP of a quintillion dollars a year but if you're consistently running a trade deficit (which the US has for decades), that strongly implies you cannot close your borders with impunity.

If you could supply the goods cheaper than importing them, people would, no? Simple capitalism!

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by totallynothoney on Sunday February 16, 2025 @07:16PM (#43073298)
Much like a 3.3% BAC is just mild buzz.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by brimwats on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:09PM (#43081082)
Canada is the source of more than 80% of the US's potash, the source of fertilizer. Without that, the entire farming industry and its crops withers and dies. It is not something easily sourced and not something easily replaced, and the crops all die long before it can be sourced or replaced. Your suggestion to close the border is absurd, jingoistic, empty, and meaningless.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by throaway89 on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:23PM (#43081247)
There'a a whole generation of Canadians who won't send a single dollar anywhere near the US thanks to Trump. I don't think we'll ever forget this.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by MVissers on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:50AM (#43068456)
I can tell you that the non-US west has lost a lot of goodwill in the last few weeks.

There are boycott’s afoot and I wouldn’t be surprised if canada and Europe will choose more Chinese and domestic in the future.

Basically, the US closing its borders will lead to a Chinese world leadership which is not good for the US either.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by yndoendo on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:05AM (#43068561)
USA exports are idling around 1/4 to near 1/3 of the GDP. Our economy is heavily tied to imports from other counties.

When it comes to isolation I think of this:

    The word invasion itself is a good example of this.

    A French ironmaster says: "We must protect ourselves from the invasion of English iron!" An English landlord cries: "We must repel the invasion of French wheat!" And they urge the erection of barriers between the two nations. Barriers result in isolation; isolation gives rise to hatred; hatred, to war; war, to invasion. "What difference does it make?" say the two sophists. "Is it not better to risk the possibility of invasion than to accept the certainty of invasion?" And the people believe them, and the barriers remain standing.

    And yet, what analogy is there between an exchange and an invasion? What possible similarity can there be between a warship that comes to vomit missiles, fire, and devastation on our cities, and a merchant vessel that comes to offer us a voluntary exchange of goods for goods?
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by sudosysgen on Sunday February 16, 2025 @11:03AM (#43069042)
The US is extremely dependent on trade because the US needs the USD to be the currency of trade and reserve to sustain its debt and deficits, without which GDP would drop precipitously.

The US isn't far less dependent, China is at 37% GDP from trade to the US's 27% but doesn't have the structural dependency on trade from having the reserve currency.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by lossolo on Sunday February 16, 2025 @11:03AM (#43069040)
Who do you think buys U.S. debt (2 trillion this year) and props up the U.S. stock exchange and assets when recycling USD?
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by insane_dreamer on Sunday February 16, 2025 @01:56PM (#43070561)
While American, I've lived most of my life abroad, and share with your world view of the US.

But after having spent years living in China, and being very familiar with the political situation there and their global ambitions, I'm afraid that the alternative to the US is even worse.

Have a democratic system has somewhat of a moderating effect on the worst impulses of the US elite. China has no such guardrails.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Monday February 17, 2025 @01:17AM (#43075794)
What “democratic system?” American are checked by anti-democratic forces at every turn, from a judiciary that overturns duly enacted laws based on “emanations from penumbras” to an executive branch that is run by the same people regardless of who wins the election to institutions that are captured by people that abuse their positions to peddle their fringe ideologies.

At least China’s unelected bureaucrats are competent and actually focused on what’s good for the public: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur...

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by insane_dreamer on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:08PM (#43081064)
To paraphrase Churchill, "democracy is the worst system, except for all the others".

There's a lot you don't know about how things actually work in China. The levels of autocracy, corruption and lack of true legal framework, make the US look like a democratic haven.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by throaway89 on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:24PM (#43081252)
The US is a paragon of (domestic) democracy and (domestic) human rights next to China, and I say that as a HARSH critic of the West.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by emchammer on Monday February 17, 2025 @02:47PM (#43082651)
Would this be the same China where jaywalkers' portaits are automatically shamed on electronic billboards and fined social credits? Is that a worthwhile trade for universal single-payer healthcare?
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by throwme0827349 on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:36AM (#43068365)
Laws are being broken to make the omelet. Will the executive constrain itself to breaking only the laws you don't like, and stop when you want it to? Will the legislative branch cede it's authority and responsibilities only temporarily?

It might hard to unscramble that omelet if we want the rule of law back later.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:40AM (#43068395)
The laws were broken in the 1930s when we created the unconstitutional monstrosity that is the modern executive branch. If you want to turn that back then I’m on board.

But if not then it must at least be democratically responsive. When republicans win the presidency—or a progressive or populist democrat—the 90% of the administrative state that’s comprised of Acela liberals should be asking how high to jump. Otherwise you have a system that’s not worth saving.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by dctoedt on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:35PM (#43071422)
> The laws were broken in the 1930s when we created the unconstitutional monstrosity that is the modern executive branch

That's bibliolatry, directed to a long-obsolete interpretation of the Constitution and the role of the federal government. FDR was analogous to Copernicus and Kepler, rescuing the country from Ptolemaic interpretations of the Constitution that were based on outdated data sets. He pushed successfully for a pragmatic reinterpretation — not inconsistent with the text — that allowed effective federal government action to deal with a global crisis.

No, FDR's New Deal didn't end the Great Depression (that was done by World War II). But the New Deal did help hold off what could easily have turned into authoritarianism of the Huey Long variety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliolatry

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:47AM (#43075600)
The "living constitution" angle doesn't get you anywhere. If we are going to "pragmatically reinterpret" the Constitution to allow the modern administrative state, that just makes it more exigent to "pragmatically reinterpret" the law to ensure effective presidential control over the administrative state. I'd start by reinterpreting the Hatch Act to allow prosecuting anyone in the government who "resists" policies such as DOGE and mass deportations.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by dctoedt on Monday February 17, 2025 @06:51AM (#43077919)
> The "living constitution" angle doesn't get you anywhere.

Says who? The Constitution is in essence the basic operating manual for American national government. Conditions on the ground have changed — and we've learned more about the world — since 1787. It'd be unpragmatic (read: insane) to insist that the original modus operandi MUST stay the same forever and ever, just because that's how they did things in 1787, as long as the new M.O. can fairly be said not to be inconsistent with the constitutional text.

It doesn't help your case that Article V provides an amendment process: Nothing in the Constitution prohibits reinterpreting the existing language to accommodate new evidence and new insights, at least not as long as the reinterpretation doesn't do violence to the text.

"The executive power" in Article II is just as open to interpretation as anything. Interpreting that power as being subject to Congress's Article I authority is clearly well within the hash marks, to say nothing of the playing field as a whole.

Article I can fairly be read as allowing Congress to expand, and/or to cabin, presidential authority. That includes creating, and delegating power to, administrative agencies under general presidential supervision; that could include delegating expansive powers to agencies and perhaps limiting the president's ability to hire and fire agency personnel.

The "unitary executive" interpretation — with a president asserting the right to unilaterally disregard or revoke congressionally-enacted arrangements — is dangerous in the extreme. We've seen that in other countries, and we could well see the same thing happen here.

Decades ago, the head of the Reactor Department on my ship [the USS Enterprise] had a list on the office wall of Great Naval Quotes that we were forbidden to use. The #1 prohibited quote on that list was, "But we've always done it that way!" followed by #2, "But we've never done it that way!" Both of those are violated by using a bibliolatry-based approach to the Constitution as a purported justification for unilaterally up-ending longstanding practices — especially when, on the whole, those practices have worked passably well.

==========

> that just makes it more exigent to "pragmatically reinterpret" the law to ensure effective presidential control over the administrative state

That's clearly one of your ideological priors, but it wasn't handed down from Mount Sinai on stone tablets.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Monday February 17, 2025 @07:19AM (#43078134)
> That's clearly one of your ideological priors

But the “living constitution” is nothing more than imposing one’s ideological priors onto the document. I happen to think the crisis of a permanent bureaucracy that is ideologically divergent from the population is far more “dangerous” than anything else the country faces. If we are going to “pragmatically reinterpret” the constitution, that’s the challenge that such interpretation needs to meet.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by dctoedt on Monday February 17, 2025 @07:50AM (#43078421)
> But the “living constitution” is nothing more than imposing one’s ideological priors onto the document.

That overlooks a key distinction: An "ideological prior" that's proved to be supported by real-world evidence (i.e., experience) is no longer an ideological prior.

Analogously: Special- and general relativity were just theories in 1905 and 1915 (their respective publication dates). Over decades, real-world evidence proved that they were, in the main, correct — but we still don't treat either as a sacred, immutable text.

The unitary-executive view is an untested theory, an ideological prior. In contrast, our existing administrative state is supported by close to a century of real-world experience.

That's not to say that modifications aren't needed in the modern state. We don't want to make a golden calf of the granular details of FDR's or the Warren Court's approaches, any more than we want to enshrine the unitary-executive model or the Alito-Thomas perspective.

But in a country with some 340 million people that's been the source of the reasonably-successful Pax Americana, it's incredibly risky to go unilaterally f*cking around — it's the equivalent of a teenaged driver insisting that he can refuel his car and change the oil while driving 75 mph on a crowded freeway.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Monday February 17, 2025 @10:05AM (#43079680)
The administrative system never worked. For much of the 20th century we had prosperity deriving from the post-WWII boon and the tatters of the Old Republic protecting private industry. But since 1980, we have had 12 presidential administrations. Of those, 9 won elections by expressly promising to cut government, several by promising to drown it in a bathtub. The only reason the system still exists is because American democracy is like those crosswalk buttons that aren’t actually hooked up to anything.

Regardless, we find ourselves in a new time. If the Old Republic could be overthrown by “emanations from penumbras” we can just as easily wave away the current imperial interregnum in which we find ourselves.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by dctoedt on Monday February 17, 2025 @10:18AM (#43079831)
> But anything that requires actual competent governance, from infrastructure to foreign policy, has been total shit my entire lifetime.

"Far from perfect, but reasonably serviceable" ≠ "total shit"

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by bix6 on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:31AM (#43068321)
For anyone else wondering:

The “Acela class” is a term used, often pejoratively, to refer to the elite political, business, and media class concentrated along the Northeast Corridor of the United States, particularly in cities like Washington, D.C., New York, and Boston. The term comes from the Acela Express, Amtrak’s high-speed train that runs between these cities, symbolizing the connectedness of this group.

Critics use it to describe a political and economic elite perceived as out of touch with the rest of the country, especially with working-class and rural Americans. It’s often associated with establishment politics, bureaucratic power, and coastal liberalism.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:07AM (#43068579)
It also refers to a political faction in the electorate, comprising about 11% of voters, that has interests and values aligned with that group: https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/ncr-voices/what-if-we-had-.... E.g. knowledge workers who benefit from globalization and upper middle class people who benefit from cheap labor provided by illegal immigrants.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by woooooo on Sunday February 16, 2025 @12:17PM (#43069655)
The republican core of exurban/rural ownership class benefits far more directly from immigrant labor than the liberal professional class.

Professionals might have a housekeeper or get their lawns done, but they're not employing a kitchen or construction site full of people.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @02:15PM (#43070764)
What percent of republicans do you think employ illegal immigrants lol. This isn’t 1980.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by woooooo on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:01PM (#43071666)
I'm saying that the people who employ illegal immigrants tend to be republican small business owners. They're not a majority but they are the heart of the party in the way educated professionals are for the dems.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by DiogenesKynikos on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:32AM (#43068332)
It's funny how hundreds of millions of normal Chinese people belong to the "Acela class."[0] Supporting decent public infrastructure does not make one an elitist.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by vinay427 on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:49AM (#43068452)
As another commenter noted, I believe the phrase is used as a metonym (?) here to refer to a class of people that is largely unrelated to support for public transport.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by SG- on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:28AM (#43068294)
I mean ignoring all the trade that will wither away to/from America and slowly be diverted to other countries instead (lost American money/opportunity), there's also lost tourism money from people not wanting to come spend their vacations there (lost money).
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:04AM (#43068554)
When I hear people crow about lost “trade” it makes me think about this guy from Frozen: https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Duke_of_Weselton
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by mindslight on Sunday February 16, 2025 @10:39AM (#43068847)
A "disloyal" administrative state for trying to perform their boring congressionally-designated jobs in response to a pandemic, rather than falling in line with supporting the president's personal business interests by saying everything was fine and telling people to continue going to hotels? Uh-huh.

The government is not a corporation and the president is not a unilateral dictator. You're right about other cultures having values alien to Americans, and perhaps you need to do some introspection there before making political arguments.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by rayiner on Monday February 17, 2025 @07:20AM (#43078148)
> congressionally-designated jobs in response to a pandemic

But sanctioning riots because their ideology tells them “racism is a public health problem?”

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by mindslight on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:42PM (#43081442)
So is your argument about "disloyalty" or about poor official actions resulting from personal bias? Because the indications of each would seem to directly conflict.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by jjk166 on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:05PM (#43071697)
Because we're proud of our country, unlike certain traitors.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by computerthings on Monday February 17, 2025 @01:16AM (#43075788)
> We’re in the middle of sorting out a disloyal administrative state that needs to be brought to heel.

That's one way to put it.

https://bsky.app/profile/twlldun.bsky.social/post/3lic2x56dv...