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Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:29AM (#43066377)
> He thinks this is a feature, not a bug. Is he wrong? I don't think so.

Twitter lost 84% of its revenue.

Do you want the USA GDP to shrink that much over the next few years?

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by NewJazz on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:43AM (#43066455)
The good news is that GDP is positively correlated with greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels. Lower GDP, lower temp. I mean the famines will certainly "help"... I don't think the Senate will let it get that far, though. Only takes a few Rs in the House to impeach. 67 senators is a hard climb but 0% YoY GDP decline could do it... Or it could give Trump the stimulus he so badly craves.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by bagels on Sunday February 16, 2025 @08:51AM (#43067972)
They won't go hungry. I don't think famine will stop them. They don't want to lose their dictator that is willing to advance their agenda.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by NewJazz on Sunday February 16, 2025 @02:02PM (#43070627)
But they need to have a strong economy AND strong, consistent revenue to fund their defense budget. Don't forget that...
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Monday February 17, 2025 @08:32AM (#43078822)
They need it to seem like that. Russia mistook the illusion for a reality, and is now stuck in a war of attrition with an economy that, on paper, is only a tenth of their own, and which is being supported by the international equivalent of loose change.

When Putin realised that, his body language changed: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-putin-neumann-int...

(Oh how hyperbolic headlines are…)

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by blackeyeblitzar on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:39AM (#43066430)
The US's GDP isn't based on the amount of bloat in its government. Sure spending finds its way into the economy, but tax dollars saved also will. As for Twitter/X - the goal isn't revenue but profit, and Twitter was not in a good shape before Elon. Musk recently noted they are barely breaking even now, and the recent sale of X debt was just above original pricing. Considering big advertisers are coming back to X, that's probably only going to look better.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by _fizz_buzz_ on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:42AM (#43066449)
The twitter deal kind of worked out for Musk because Trump won the presidency. It's a way to buy favors from the US government now. Basically a corruption vehicle. From a end user stand point, twitter is terrible now. Lots of bots, full of life hack and crypto scams and a lot of scientists and other interesting people completely abandoned the platform.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by cr125rider on Sunday February 16, 2025 @08:28AM (#43067798)
Control the media, control the narrative. A tale as old as time.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:10AM (#43066608)
> The US's GDP isn't based on the amount of bloat in its government. Sure spending finds its way into the economy, but tax dollars saved also will.

"Bloat" presumes. "Tax dollars saved" would only be relevant — still incorrect, but relevant — if you were matching tax cuts with spending cuts, rather than trying to balance budgets.

If the USA balances its budget in a way that *somehow* has no side-effects, the GDP shrinks 7% just from that cut alone — but these cuts do have side effects so it is worse than that.

And doing using layoffs as a discovery mechanism is going to have Chesterton-fence type mistakes, where you only find what's wrong when the stuff you stop paying for is maintenance whose absence takes a while to become visible to non-domain experts. Dams will fail and flood valleys, bridges will fall into rivers, that kind of thing has gotten into the news in other countries when maintenance was forgotten.

The infrastructure that your government is responsible for is the backbone upon which the wealth of the rest of your country is built. You can eliminate the entire Federal Highway Administration and Joe Average won't notice anything for nearly a year… but if and when you do hire them back, you may have to hire back a lot more than you fired just to catch up with the damage done.

And so it goes for many other aspects of your country. CDC's also in the news now. OK, until you get your next pandemic… oh, wait, you're already having one. Nukes? You won't notice the problem until other governments no longer fear your nuclear deterrent. Armed forces in general? British didn't see any problem with shrinking their forces until the Russian invasion of Ukraine and realising how close they were to not being able to defend themselves if invaded. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration? Getting rid of that means a lot of companies can get away with skipping safety processes, so it might even seem like the economy goes up… until you get some equivalent of the Union Carbide plant in Bhopal.

> As for Twitter/X - the goal isn't revenue but profit, and Twitter was not in a good shape before Elon.

They made a profit in two of the years before he took over; an 84% revenue decline means that the company cannot even service the debt he saddled the company with during the purchase, even if he fired all remaining staff and reduced server, utility, real estate, and insurance, and all other costs to zero.

> Musk recently noted they are barely breaking even now, and the recent sale of X debt was just above original pricing.

Do you trust him?

According to this link, they sold more of their debt than they were expecting to, for more than expected to, but it was still less than they paid for it.

Going from $1b to $5.5b and from 90¢/$ to 97¢/$ is less bad rather than good.

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/morgan-stanley-...

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by jimnotgym on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:45AM (#43066787)
>Sure spending finds its way into the economy, but tax dollars saved also will.

Tax savings too a $40k a year person immediately find their way into the economy. Tax savings to multi-millionaires and billionaires tend to result in ever higher asset prices. They have too much spend effectively, so they hoard it.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by kelnos on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:54AM (#43066834)
So essentially the process here is:

1. Buy Twitter.

2. Fire most of the staff.

3. Piss everyone off so all the advertisers shun you.

4. Barely get the company breaking even, mainly due to all the cuts, even though the platform itself is barely limping along.

5. Cozy up to a wannabe dictator that dupes (slightly less than) half the country to elect him as president again.

6. Make the advertisers realize that their continued prosperity depends on bending the knee to you, due to your political connections. Not to mention your platform is now a way for people to buy favors from the government.

7. Profit.

(No need for a "???" step before "Profit", well done...)

We truly live in the darkest timeline.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:19AM (#43066650)
> Twitter lost 84% of its revenue.

How much of that is because of politics? Already at the point of takeover, Musk was so hated by half the US for various reasons that it became profitable for major publishing platforms to abandon Twitter/X "on principle". When you're in that situation, nothing on the object-level can help you - neither good management nor technical competence. Revenue depends indirectly on the public opinion, and half of it wants nothing to do with you.

US nuclear arsenal is not in this situation.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by jimnotgym on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:51AM (#43066813)
Is it politics that people don't want to do business with shitty people? I'd call that being human.

If I owned a bill board space, and set everything around it on fire, wouldn't you think it was my fault that advertisers didn't want to pay to use it any more?

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 16, 2025 @05:19AM (#43066973)
No, but then burning everything around the billboard doesn't necessarily make you a shitty person, and also opinions of people siding with advertisers aren't somehow the definitive ones.

I mean, why do people who hate what Twitter is now care about it's lost revenue? Especially given what it was, and where the revenue came from, this isn't exactly an argument that generalizes well.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by roenxi on Sunday February 16, 2025 @08:28AM (#43067803)
The real question is why people think Twitter's lost revenue is linked to Musk's management. There doesn't seem to be a theory about a causal link. If anything the argument is "Musk is a bad person -> Twitter lost revenue" which suggests his management practices had no effect on the company's operation.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:34AM (#43068349)
FWIW, I absolutely blame his management of Twitter rather than his political alignment or questions of morality.

Reason being, look at Tesla stock price: Musk's gaffes have a short term impact, but overall the price is way up since buying Twitter.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 16, 2025 @09:47AM (#43068432)
Tesla is not in advertising business, though. They are affected by the whims of public opinion, but not as much, as they're established company selling a quality product worldwide.

Musk used to dabble much more in Tesla directly than he's now, I wonder whether the ups and downs of the company correlate with his involvement, especially before he started going off the rails so badly? That would be informative and help separate object-level impact from political hysteria.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by LunaSea on Sunday February 16, 2025 @03:10PM (#43071216)
> Tesla is not in advertising business, though.

Tesla is absolutely in the advertisement business.

Their marketing and image is the only thing holding the company up (for now).

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:25PM (#43071862)
What I meant is: they buy ads and care about their opinion. They're not a platform selling ads, and they're not an ad delivery vector (like e.g. publishers) either. The latter two kinds of businesses have particular dynamics that are highly sensitive to public opinion, much more so than for any other kind of business.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by johnnyanmac on Sunday February 16, 2025 @06:21PM (#43072832)
Did people already forget he allowed Anti-semitism? And then brands left Twitter? And then he threatened to sue the brands for leaving?

We can argue the first part all day. The point was Coca Cola and co. did not want to assossiate anymore and that had an objective dollar amount.

I know less about this situation, but Twitter in 2024 apparently made some controversial blocking changes and that started the bluesky migration. I don't know the dollar amount there, but they apparently lost some big influencers.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:54AM (#43066833)
If Musk was so politically toxic as to drive an 84% revenue decline, the Republican politicians wouldn't have allowed him to support them or their party.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Sunday February 16, 2025 @05:13AM (#43066931)
Why? That entirely depends on political alignment of revenue sources, and I bet that (before the takeover) the balance was heavily on the US left-wing side, as that's also the overall bias in tech industry and social media and news publishing. And all that is amplified by advertisers in general, regardless of political leaning, being very touchy about controversy.

I can easily imagine this to alone be responsible for wiping 84% revenue.

Real world has a different political distribution than the Internet. "Politically toxic" on-line in particular is a knee-jerk reaction that is great at generating consistent revenue streams for publishers and social media on-line, but doesn't translate well to how the entire population of a country actually thinks or votes in the real world.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by ben_w on Sunday February 16, 2025 @05:19AM (#43066974)
> Real world has a different political distribution than the Internet.

5% different, almost everyone is online.

But, thinking about your oft-quoted blog post about advertising bring a cancer, I guess if the top ad spenders cut themselves out entirely, then the bidding system could result in the runner-up bidder finding their ads are now almost arbitrarily cheaper.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by johnnyanmac on Sunday February 16, 2025 @06:31PM (#43072938)
>5% different, almost everyone is online.

We at best get 70% participation in voter representation. Online wise, I'd wager we get at best 20% "public" participation in terms of who bothers to participate online as opposed to lurking. And that 20% is spread amongst hundreds of subjects.

And we know these aren't created equal. The internet is disproportionately on the younger side, is very slightly biased by "middle class", educated workers, and the gender demographics vary site to site, despite being overall even (e.g. disproportionately male on Reddit, female on Pintrest). There will definitely be a different resuts online compared to making physical surveys.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by insane_dreamer on Sunday February 16, 2025 @02:06PM (#43070681)
> Already at the point of takeover, Musk was so hated by half the US for various reasons that it became profitable for major publishing platforms to abandon Twitter/X "on principle"

No, Musk became hated by half the US __because__ of the way he took over Twitter. That lost him a great deal of good will.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by jjk166 on Sunday February 16, 2025 @04:41PM (#43071977)
> How much of that is because of politics?

The US government is a lot more affected by politics than twitter will ever be.

Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by TeMPOraL on Monday February 17, 2025 @03:20PM (#43082945)
Different kind of politics. For the Twitter-affecting kind, I'm struggling to come up with a term that wouldn't be seen to some as offensive.
Re:US goverment seeks to rehire recently fired nuclear workers by jjk166 on Monday February 17, 2025 @04:32PM (#43083495)
Pretty sure it's the same type of politics. If you think private, profit driven corporations are reluctant to deal with individuals viewed as problematic by their customers, wait until you see how elected, popularity driven officials deal with people viewed as problematic by their constituents.