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Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @02:28AM (#42746590)
>Imagine this happening for a serious criminal issue, with the years long back log on some courts, this could ruin someones life.

It can be much scarier.

There was a case in Russia when a scientist was accused in a murder that happened 20 years ago based on 70% face recognition match and fake identification as an accomplice by a criminal. [0] He spent 10 months in jail during "investigation" despite being incredibly lucky to have an alibi -- archival records of the institute where he worked, proving he was in an expedition far away from Moscow at that time. He was eventually freed but I'm afraid that police investigators that used very weak face recognition match as a way to improve their work performance stats are still working in the police.

[0] https://lenta.ru/articles/2024/04/03/scientist/

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by ithkuil on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:12AM (#42746952)
And probably there are other people in jail convicted using the same method that just were unlucky enough to not have a bulletproof alibi?
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @08:00AM (#42748024)
I don't know, but it seems quite likely, unfortunately. There were quite a few other cases when fake evidence was planted by police.

It's not the only problem with technology -- it's claimed that there has been over hundred cases of false DNA matches not caused by malice or processing errors.[0] In theory, DNA match must not be considered by courts as 100% accurate, but in fact it is.

On the other hand, there were cases when human rights advocates or journalists were claiming that innocent people were jailed but that turned out to be false, like people getting caught on camera doing the same kind of crime again after they served their sentence.

[0] https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5825384

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by asddubs on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:29AM (#42748587)
same with stenographs. We keep inventing new methods for the police to make up evidence.
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @11:19AM (#42749388)
I don't understand, could you elaborate on that?
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by asddubs on Saturday January 18, 2025 @11:42AM (#42749525)
I apologize, I got the terms mixed up, I meant a polygraph
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:38PM (#42751624)
Yep, I got the impression that courts consider polygraph only when the results implicate the accused. Good thing that by law they cannot force you to get questioned with polygraph attached.
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by polygon87 on Saturday January 18, 2025 @05:11AM (#42747250)
I know it’s the wrong way to think but things like this make me glad about a digital footprint… good chance I’m liking a TikTok comment or reading an HN thread at the same time as any crime, just statistically.
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by asddubs on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:27AM (#42748565)
that's not going to get you off the hook. anything that could be faked via account sharing is going to be discarded (not to mention that tiktok and similar platforms will not collaborate with you to build an alibi by giving access to this data, only the police to build a case)
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by bflesch on Saturday January 18, 2025 @07:59AM (#42748018)
You're using a false equivalency bias, it is commonly used with propaganda posts. Also your account is very new. So my conclusion is that you're here to spill russian propaganda.

Your false equivalency is to compare prosecution of criminal acts within western democracies with how criminal justice works in russia, which is a dictatorial, genocidal, imperialistic mafia state. You're using this subtle form of propaganda in order to make russia more relatable to audiences from democratic countries, while forgetting the fact that people go to prison in russia for just holding up an empty piece of paper.

Based on your other comments you seem like a tech person from the russian sphere of influence, I assume a russian who moved abroad. I cannot find more evidence of you using propaganda tactics, so I don't want to be too harsh on you.

However, please be aware that you cannot compare apples to oranges. In dictatorships like russia you can and will get killed if you position yourself against the tzar.

Maybe you'll recognize your cognitive dissonance and stop rationalizing that russia is in any way comparable to a democratic country. With this understanding, I think you'll notice that your whole comment is off-topic: Yes, dictatorships are more scary than democracies. Nobody needs to click on a link to lenta.ru and expose themselves to russian spyware to understand this point.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by fwn on Saturday January 18, 2025 @08:33AM (#42748194)
> [...] my conclusion is that you're here to spill russian propaganda. [...]

The case described by the parent is that of someone who was wrongly imprisoned for 10 months on the basis of bogus application of faulty technology, even though they had a solid alibi. Therefore, the comment does not reflect well on Russia, the Russian state or the Russian government, like.. at all.

If there is a propaganda dimension to this (which I doubt), it is certainly not an attempt to say something nice about the Russian justice system.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by bflesch on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:22AM (#42748532)
It's a subtle form of propaganda. Same category as the "funny russian car crashes" or "awesome chinese acrobat" videos that are on reddit's front page all the time. One might wonder why it's always those two countries and not others who are getting thousands of upvotes.

The comment I criticized falsely implies that there is due process in russia, and that technical faults lead to unfair results for the people who are accused of something.

It is a cherry-picked example, and the big majority of russian court cases are decided without due process, because it is a dictatorship. If you try to get justice because you were harmed by corrupt officials or the tzar you're out of luck. Lawyers are getting shot on the street as a birthday present for putin. There are lots of examples. And once you're in prison they'll send you to the frontlines to murder Ukrainians.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by fwn on Saturday January 18, 2025 @10:14AM (#42748948)
I'm pretty relaxed about all this, but just a thought: Your comments in this thread seem very eager to talk about Russia instead of the actual topic of the thread, which is privacy and AI.

You wrote those comments in a very repetitive and mission-driven way. Which does not inspire confidence in the absence of ulterior motives.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by asddubs on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:33AM (#42748619)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-fo...

The notion that this kind of thing couldn't happen in the west is laughable

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:45AM (#42748719)
Or this: "A former forensic scientist intentionally manipulated DNA evidence during her 29-year career at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, casting doubt on at least 652 criminal cases she handled, including some of the most high-profile trials, according to investigation findings released by the agency Friday." [0]

[0] https://coloradosun.com/2024/03/08/yvonne-missy-woods-cbi-in...

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by bflesch on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:58AM (#42748824)
You chime in to showcase another thing where the USA is wrong, but you oversee the point that in no way russia is comparable to this.

In the article you linked, there is a criminal investigation, an audit and a re-test of evidence in order “to ensure the accuracy and completeness of its entire catalog of records because someone manipulated DNA evidence.

In russia, there is no investigation, because they make up evidence against their political enemies all the time. It feels like you have some incentive to miss the elephant in the room.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by bflesch on Saturday January 18, 2025 @09:53AM (#42748785)
The notion that the judicial system in democratic countries is in any way comparable to the judicial system in the dictatorship of russia is laughable.

In democratic countries such errors with regards to forensic evidence spark news because it is so unusual. In dictatorships like russia, nobody expects forensic methods to be valid because the court verdict does not depend on evidence, it depends on your connections to the dictator.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by asddubs on Saturday January 18, 2025 @11:13AM (#42749352)
I'm not interested in figuring out which judicial system is worse, I'm sure russia would win. But you give the western system far too much credit, because the police frequently rely on unscientific methods to convict people, even after this fact has been known. Not just the article I linked, polygraphs, drug searching dogs which also have been shown not to actually be effective but mostly respond to their handlers. I don't know what things are like in russia, but for sure I do not like people pretending there is no problem because other places are worse. And I have very little hope AI won't be the next thing on that list.
Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by drysine on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:39PM (#42751637)
>which judicial system is worse, I'm sure russia would win

Having indefinite moratorium on the death penalty is a big plus though.

Re:Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption by rainonmoon on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:49PM (#42751683)
Grave consequences are not a rarity. Automated decision making in immigration and housing classify people with zero recourse or transparency, locking them out of a place to live (and in the case of Australia, locking them up in offshore detention for years).