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Re: by cs02rm0 on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:05PM (#42589934)
Wacky idea. The EU is an awful lot of legislation to sign up to, not the most popular it's even been either. If it's just about trading space and resources for people I'd imagine a more bespoke arrangement would be preferable for both sides.
Re: by iknowstuff on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:15PM (#42590025)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market

The four freedoms of the single market you get in return are incredible.

Re: by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:24PM (#42590107)
Only the free movement of labor is really unusual. As in ... really, really, really unusual. Lots of trade deals include variations of the first 3 ... free movement of labor is basically unheard of between nation states as part of trade deals.
Re: by skissane on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:32PM (#42590173)
Australia and New Zealand have both free trade and free movement of people between them. They aren't formally linked – free trade is a treaty, free movement of people is just an "arrangement" (not a legally binding agreement under international law, rather a political agreement implemented in each country's immigration law) – but it is all part of the overall multifaceted bilateral relationship.
Re: by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:03PM (#42590420)
Well, that gets the heart of what's do revolutionary about the EU's basic premises. "You want to move capital and profits and materials without limit? Sure, no problem, but only if labor has the same freedom."
Re: by skissane on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:23PM (#42590582)
I think a big difference is that Australia and New Zealand are only two countries, so there has never been felt to be a need to establish many joint institutions. Issues can generally be worked through by one-on-one negotiation. Rather than some single overarching body to manage everything, there are lots of individual agreements and arrangements on separate issues.

There are some joint institutions – for example, Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ), which is in charge of food regulation for both countries – but rather than an international bureaucracy, it is an Australian government agency. Even its Wellington office, all the employees are technically Australian public servants, even though they are mostly New Zealanders. New Zealand pays the Australian government part of FSANZ's budget; FSANZ issues new food regulations under Australian law and then the New Zealand government copies/pastes them into New Zealand law too: with rare exceptions, they are allowed to refuse to adopt a change if they disagree with it–Kava is a recent example, Australia has been cracking down on Kava due to concerns about the health risk, and using both controlled substances and food standards regulation to do so; New Zealand has been unwilling to go along due to its cultural importance to New Zealand's Pasifika (Pacific Islander) minority.

The issue is that the neighbouring countries are generally a lot poorer, and many of them are small island states, often with a shaky track record on democracy, so it just isn't politically and economically feasible to integrate them into the same economic relations as Australia and New Zealand have. There has been some talk of turning the Pacific Islands Forum, the regional international organisation, into a "Pacific Union", by expanding Australia/New Zealand's de facto economic union to the whole bloc. But realistically I think that's decades away, if it ever happens. And unless and until that happens, there is no real need to put the Australia/New Zealand economic union on a more formal footing.

Re: by ncruces on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:23PM (#42590588)
Not just that, it gives rise to the concept of EU citizenship, which covers more than just freedom of movement.
Re: by bluepizza on Friday January 03, 2025 @11:37PM (#42592442)
Mercosur, Australia-New Zealand, and the Gulf Cooperation Council all have a similar agreement on movement of labour. It is not particularly rare.
Re: by mmooss on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:03PM (#42590417)
Despite the critics, many countries have signed up and would like to, and only one has left. Why is EU membership so much in demand?
Re: by ThrowawayTestr on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:29PM (#42590630)
Weak countries need the protection of Germany and France
Re: by thenaturalist on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:36PM (#42590678)
Germany has no domestic military power to speak of, military is comically underfunded. No nuclear deterrence. Not sure what kind of protection you're thinking of.

We can send beer to your enemy in hopes they opt for boozing rather than shooting.

Re: by ThrowawayTestr on Friday January 03, 2025 @09:29PM (#42591782)
They need the economies of Germany and France.
Re: by mmooss on Friday January 03, 2025 @11:26PM (#42592401)
And the international political and economic influence. Really of the whole EU - those countries together, including their currency, have global weight. Together, they are on the scale of the US and China.

Also, they would like to sell things to and buy things from Germany and France, and the rest of the EU.

Economics determines military power. If Germany wants to build a military, they can and now they are, to a significant extent.

Re: by mike_hearn on Saturday January 04, 2025 @04:30AM (#42593678)
It's not in demand. Who has joined lately?

The big wave of accessions from former eastern bloc countries was partly driven by the promise of huge transfer subsidies, but those are now being made retroactively conditional on things like only voting in left wing parties and who knows what else in future. Not so directly appealing anymore.

Re: by franga2000 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @05:41AM (#42593918)
> conditional on things like only voting in left wing parties

Thefuck? The EU has been making everything conditional on privatization, deregulation and generally adopting more capitalist models in practically every aspect of government. You're calling this left wing??

A few examples of the demands: sell off our largest and state-owned bank; decouple, deregulate and privatize electricity generation and sale; open the up publicly-owned railways to private operators; increase the minimum age of retirement...

Re: by mike_hearn on Saturday January 04, 2025 @11:39AM (#42595769)
The EU isn't exactly famous for its love of deregulation, you know. Quite the opposite, especially when it comes to tech.

But I'm referring to the withdrawal of cohesion funds from countries like Poland and Hungary under newly invented rules like needing to share "EU values". These values aren't defined or written down anywhere, but the only countries that seem to violate them are those with conservative parties in power. The moment the conservatives are no longer in power, suddenly the country is in compliance with "EU values" again.

Re: by mmooss on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:03PM (#42596865)
You know that's not what's happening. The EU is withholding money because those countries have regressed democratically, with the executive controlling the judiciary and press, and oppressing the political opposition.

Plenty of conservative governments are in the EU. Freedom and democracy - which mean an independent judiciary and free and independent press - are not left-wing ideas!

Re: by wkat4242 on Saturday January 04, 2025 @05:31PM (#42598161)
Some 'values' like LGBT discrimination in Hungary are prohibited by EU directive: https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/policies/ju...

So yes they are written down. And rightly so. Being conservative is fine but telling others how to live their life is not.

However this is indeed not the reason for the withdrawal of funds as others have mentioned.

Re: by mmooss on Saturday January 04, 2025 @02:01PM (#42596842)
Bulgaria and Romania in 2007, Croatia in 2013. Ukraine, Moldova, and (last I knew) Georgia are all trying to get in. Iceland is considering it. Many are even talking about it in the UK, though obviously that won't happen soon.

Given the limits of oceans and seas, and Russia and Turkey to the east, there's not much more of Europe left that hasn't joined. They've actually succeeded in uniting almost all of Europe - pretty effing incredible, an historic achievement that will be admired for millennia.

Re: by xoxosc on Friday January 03, 2025 @06:43PM (#42590724)
Not to mention the bureaucrats at Brussels are not elected!
Re: by Aloisius on Friday January 03, 2025 @08:15PM (#42591318)
? Bureaucrats aren't elected anywhere.

A bureaucracy is a body of non-elected government officials.

Re: by preisschild on Friday January 03, 2025 @07:22PM (#42590954)
Wrong

The EU parliament is elected and the EU council is indirectly elected.

Re: by make3 on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:17PM (#42590049)
This is never passing.

Trump-inspired conservatives are on their ways to be guaranteed majority at the next federal elections.

Re: by joshl32532 on Friday January 03, 2025 @05:39PM (#42590250)
The conservatives were leading the polls wayyy before Trump even winning the GOP primaries.

Canadians are just tired of Justin Trudeau after almost 10 years. Which happens to even the best of leaders, and JT is far from it.