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Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by eastbound on Saturday December 28, 2024 @02:15PM (#42533638)
“Drastically”

Common, everyone cried at all the demons when Trump asked Europe to reach 2% of GDP on military spending in 2018. Had we done it, we’d have DOUBLED our spending.

Russia is at 6.3%, USA at 3.4% (7x Russia’s in absolute spending), Europe at 1.3%.

Culture-wise, it’s unthinkable for Europe to come around and revive the military-industrial complex. We’re basically trying to win this war by crossing our fingers, like the French did in 1936 (the famous Congés Payés were offered in 1936, with beautiful photos of parisians going to the beach, while our German cousins were in factories manufacturing guns. Guess who won the war).

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by falcor84 on Saturday December 28, 2024 @02:35PM (#42533797)
I know what you meant to say, but it's important for me to just emphasize that it wasn't the Germans who won that war.
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by diordiderot on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:27PM (#42534337)
Well it certainly wasn't the French
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by Terr_ on Saturday December 28, 2024 @02:37PM (#42533823)
> everyone cried at all the demons when Trump asked Europe to reach 2% of GDP on military spending in 2018.

No, that's not what people had a problem with, and it's barely even what Trump said.

Trump claimed (again) that the less-spending-than-recommended nations somehow owed payments to the US, and threatened that the US would violate the treaty if they somehow didn't keep him satisfied!

That's the stuff that was new and controversial, and for damn good reasons.

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by diordiderot on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:36PM (#42534430)
> the US would violate the treaty

Other parties were already violating the treaty by not spending 2%. It's simple Tit for tat.

> Trump claimed (again) that the less-spending-than-recommended nations somehow owed payments to the US

The US was shouldering the cost of international security (being a hegemon) You take European stability and welfare for granted, we can't know what the world would look like without pax Americana but I'm certain it would be worse. The 'rules based international community' You couldn't even stop a genocide on the EUs front door.

> for damn good reasons

Hopefully I've demonstrated otherwise

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by Teever on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:28PM (#42534912)
The 2pc spending thing is not in the treaty.
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by dralley on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:28PM (#42534916)
I'm as frustrated as anyone about Europe not pulling their weight, but it's not in violation of the treaty. The 2% guideline has nothing to do with the treaty itself. It's precisely that, a non-binding guideline.
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by Terr_ on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:54PM (#42535120)
> Other parties were already violating the treaty by not spending 2%.

That is not a requirement in the treaty, merely a recommendation. Stop making things up to sanewash Trump.

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by piva00 on Sunday December 29, 2024 @11:48AM (#42541047)
> Other parties were already violating the treaty by not spending 2%. It's simple Tit for tat.

I'd ask you to share an official document outlining this requirement of the treaty. I will be sitting though.

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by rfrey on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:41PM (#42535009)
>Culture-wise, it’s unthinkable for Europe to come around and revive the military-industrial complex

I'm not sure that means what you think it means. Eisenhower wasn't being complementary when he coined that term.

Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by ahartmetz on Saturday December 28, 2024 @05:24PM (#42535346)
He also wasn't exactly disparaging it. He said we need it, but we must not let it become too powerful or influential. The truth of that hasn't really changed.
Re:Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with s... by rfrey on Saturday December 28, 2024 @06:13PM (#42535704)
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

He absolutely disparaged it, in fact he considered it a fundamental threat to democracy.

"Military industrial complex" isn't about maintaining a large, dominant military. It's about industry becoming so entwined with the military that they start calling the shots, and military decisions begin to be made for the benefit of corporations rather than the nation.