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Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by donquichotte on Saturday December 28, 2024 @01:45AM (#42529110)
In Europe, this is mandated by law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by cherryteastain on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:15AM (#42529681)
Just enable it by default and put a warning in big red letters that disabling the cellular modem will also disable the ECall system, which may mean you might not get the emergency assistance you need and therefore die.
Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by wkat4242 on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:21AM (#42529706)
That shouldn't have to be linked. You should be able to turn off manufacturer telemetry while keeping ecall. Ecall doesn't even talk to the manufacturer. It just calls the emergency services directly.

Of course when the modem is on you can't be sure that it's not doing that but that's what we have laws for.

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by wkat4242 on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:30AM (#42529494)
Yes and no. Ecall is but telemetry is not. And ecall only makes a call in case of a crash.
Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by M95D on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:58AM (#42529611)
The GSM SIM cards, by design, can be remotely updated to do whatever the service provider wants (or asked "nicely", or paid to do).

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/digital-identity-and-...

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by wkat4242 on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:09AM (#42529655)
I know, and they can be hacked too through sms messages.

But the sim card doesn't have access to the car telemetry. Probably even the whole baseband module doesn't. It just gets that data to transmit when an accident happens.

The worst you could do by hacking the SIM is to make the modem send nearby cell data somewhere. Which is serious enough because the rough location can be derived from it. But it's a far cry from what these manufacturers collect.

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by NewJazz on Saturday December 28, 2024 @04:07AM (#42529650)
Or if the service provider is served a warrant, or if they're hacked.
Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by eliaspro on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:49AM (#42529580)
Ecall could/should use completely separate communications infrastructure than the entertainment/vehicle connectivity functionality.
Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by wkat4242 on Saturday December 28, 2024 @03:52AM (#42529587)
That's difficult because both will need to use the cell network.

But I guess you mean on the car side like two modems? Yeah that would be nice, or at least to mandate the option to turn all manufacturer telemetry completely off. The EU never bothered to do this for computers and phones either though.

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by naranjito on Sunday December 29, 2024 @08:09AM (#42539713)
In Spain they soon will require V-16 [0] too. Originally it was just a light but then it was improved to use mobile networks to send an emergency call to authorities. And proving, that technically, it is possible to have something like ECall but without deep integration into the car.

No need of having always on connection to the network, only enable on emergencies. No remote hacking of SIM/base band possible at random times. Mechanic or user can check battery periodically, replace if low, just like wiper fluid. Car could even cut all electric systems after deploying the integrated V-16 system.

Car manufacturers deciding to make their ECall implementations complex and privacy invading was their choice.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V16_warning_beacon_lights

Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by martin8412 on Monday December 30, 2024 @05:16AM (#42548057)
This uses the LTE-M network, which is pretty cool. It doesn't do anything until you turn it on.
Re:VW Suffers Major Breach Exposing Location of 800k Electri... by ale42 on Monday December 30, 2024 @05:21PM (#42554181)
AFAIK ECall uses a voice call with data encoded on the audio channel. This is not what telemetry does, it should be doable to leave the voice channel and disable any data connections. (But it's probably very hard to check for someone who has no background in emebedded systems). Plus, in theory an emergency call can be done without even using a SIM card, right (if network allows)?