Re:Advanced Civilizations Could Be Indistinguishable from Na...
by euroderf on Thursday December 19, 2024 @04:10AM
(#42459733)
> Drexler, the early nanotechnology guy, back when nanotechnology meant pushing atoms around by mechanical means, rather than surface chemistry.
I bought his book Engines of Creation when it came out and his thesis had the air of inevitability - how could it not materialize some day ? It seemed so self-evident.
Re:Advanced Civilizations Could Be Indistinguishable from Na...
by exe34 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @08:07AM
(#42461067)
I remember reading engines of creation in my second year of uni and then asking Andre Geim for a summer placement - he said no, he was busy, and then a few months after he got the Nobel prize. Instead I went to the material science school and got a summer project playing with the old tunneling electron microscope in the basement. it felt like flying a 747, given how many buttons, levers and knobs you had to tune to get a good picture of nanotubes. They also showed me their state of the art AFM but I wasn't allowed to breathe near it.
Re:Advanced Civilizations Could Be Indistinguishable from Na...
by infinite8s on Thursday December 19, 2024 @09:21AM
(#42461612)
Pushing atoms around by mechanical means only seems plausible if you've never really studied molecular chemistry - see the Drexler/Smalley debate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drexler%E2%80%93Smalley_debate...
Re:Advanced Civilizations Could Be Indistinguishable from Na...
by patrickhogan1 on Thursday December 19, 2024 @10:04PM
(#42467907)
It’s a good debate. I tend to agree with Ray K’s commentary.
Re:Advanced Civilizations Could Be Indistinguishable from Na...
by littlestymaar on Thursday December 19, 2024 @04:14AM
(#42459762)
> Reduce means to pull a metal out of its oxide. This is way uphill energetically.
For iron (Fe2+) is about the same order of magnitude than getting organic matter of of CO2, which is what photosynthesis does, so it doesn't really sounds impossible. The main problem is that in an oxygen rich atmosphere, any metallic iron it would spontaneously get back to its oxide form pretty much instantly…
Separate metals from organics, yes.[1] Reduce metals, probably not. Reduce means to pull a metal out of its oxide. This is way uphill energetically. It is usually done by heating the oxide to a high temperature in an oxygen-poor environment. The other direction, oxidation, produces energy, and there are some biological processes that use that.
Still, there are some bacteria which manipulate manganese.[2]
> What if atomic-scale manufacturing fundamentally changes our relationship with scarce resources?
I used to know Drexler, the early nanotechnology guy, back when nanotechnology meant pushing atoms around by mechanical means, rather than surface chemistry. Not much came of that. It's hard to apply enough force to break strong molecular bonds apart. IBM did manage to spell out "IBM" with xenon atoms, but xenon is inert and doesn't bond strongly to anything. No strong bonds to break.
Asteroid mining is potentially possible. Somebody will probably try it for gold and platinum within fifty years. It's unlikely to become cost-effective for cheaper metals.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
[2] https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/world/metal-eating-bacteria-i...