We've done the line go up thing, and it isn't working out great. Maybe we could try something else?

I love writing software. I 'like' my job, but the 40h / wk 9-5 can be a drag. As I get older and more financially secure, I'd love the ability to cut my working days down to 2-3d / wk. My father has a job he works 2d / wk remote, and I'm not even sure he wants to retire anymore. Why would he?

If I had a coding job I could work a couple days a week remote? I'm not sure I'd ever retire either.

The danger once you become fully financially independent is that neither you or companies are willing to compromise on your working terms and you retire by default.

I'm sure I could happily work on saas or open source projects the rest of my life, but it would be nice if I could trade some of that energy and enthusiasm in on work that pays consistently.

Never share your situation and security. Your plan is sound otherwise, just say "I need more time for family" or whatever will trigger the response that gets you this outcome. As long as they need you, they'll accommodate.

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-De...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/jul/12/workin...

https://www.hrotoday.com/news/only-5-of-employees-prefer-wor...

https://www.population.fyi/p/singapores-fertility-crisis-cou...

https://stackoverflow.blog/2023/11/27/are-remote-workers-mor...

The whole remote vs in office in somewhat a tired argument, so lets move a level up to power structures: old folks in power, both government and corporate. ~2M people in the US 55+ die every year, ~5k per day. ~4M people turn 18. ~4.1M Boomers are retiring per year, ~11k per day. This demographic transition is the opportunity to move the zeitgeist around social interaction to improve outcomes for the human at scale (imho). Like bankruptcy, change happens slowly, and then all of a sudden.

Work must get done, but re-evaluating what work looks like in the service of the human (because why are we even living if it is just to work) should be a priority if loneliness is killing us (and more time at work is not the solution imho). It's just a job, you are just a replaceable cog, most people just need a check, and coworkers are not your friends (in most cases). Collectivism is coming together as a community, not for a meaningless job and org.

(n=1, I structured my life so I can take only remote jobs, so I can be close geographically to the people who matter to me, enrich my life, and I want to spend time with, but this does not scale [or rather, we should figure out how to make it scale: https://paulgraham.com/ds.html])

Ugh!

Practically almost all people got highly manipulated into having no hobby's or interests in their free time. They will find no use for a 4 day week not will they see any advantages.

An astonishing number of people live paycheck to paycheck and basically any hobby costs at least some money

Even playing videogames is a better hobby than doom-scrolling, or going for a walk/run, that's free. Maybe reading a book? I have friends who plow through 2-3 books a week, all from the local library. Cooking?

I don't think people are as poor as you indicate. Everyone just takes their gramme of soma whenever they can.

But what they want to do may be different

For instance it's very difficult to do any kind of creative craft if you don't have a budget. Woodworking, metalworking, or anything like that

Even videogames is kind of expensive, you need a console or computer and then games can be pricey as well

And yes, people may genuinely prefer to watch videos about working on cars rather than reading a book, when they would really rather be working on their own car but can't afford to

I know a LOT of poor people who fix their own cars, so I don't buy that argument much at all.

I asked about TikTok and doom-scrolling, not watching youtube to educate yourself. People spend HOURS on that mess every day. And costs them a phone every 2-ish years and a service plan, so that isn't even remotely free.

This doesn't seem relevant, honestly. People more or less need a phone to function in society nowadays, it's not really optional and it becomes more and more required all the time. So owning a phone and having a plan for it is more or less a sunk cost for almost everyone already

I suspect you will quibble about this, phones aren't actually required, people could live without them.. but more and more you cannot participate in society without one. More and more you need mobile 2FA to interact with your banking, government services etc. Hell some restaurants you can't even see the menu without a phone to view QR codes on. Owning a phone is "optional" but the cost of not having one is high enough that it is basically ridiculous to suggest people should save money by not having one

So if we take that a phone and plan is already a baseline, it's not really an extra expense for people to scroll feeds

Meanwhile a hobby that requires access to specialized tools is an extra expense, and sometimes a big one

Most poor people I've ever known (including myself, years ago) fix their own cars out of necessity because it's cheaper than going to a mechanic, not as a hobby

You said: > And yes, people may genuinely prefer to watch videos about working on cars rather than reading a book, when they would really rather be working on their own car but can't afford to

And then said: > Most poor people I've ever known (including myself, years ago) fix their own cars out of necessity because it's cheaper than going to a mechanic, not as a hobby

These seem at odds with each other.

People are generally poor because they were never taught how to manage money, not because they don't have any.

I'm not trying to argue with you in the sense that one of us absolutely right and the other is not, I just can't see it.

Working on a car as a hobby is generally expensive, buying nice parts and building something awesome to drive. Maybe drive on a track, even.

Poor people working on a car are usually doing it out of necessity to keep it running.

> People are generally poor because they were never taught how to manage money, not because they don't have any.

I mostly disagree. Yes, financial literacy is a problem, but most poor people are poor because necessities like rent, groceries, a vehicle, insurance, etc are all expensive and they do not have in-demand skills to earn significantly more income than their expenses

"People are generally poor because they were never taught how to manage money" is an attitude that goes hand in hand with statements like "If people just stopped buying their daily coffee they wouldn't be poor"

But actually poor people can't afford a daily coffee in the first place

I did my amateur radio license in Canada about 15 years ago, which involves also getting to know the older members of the local radio club. Their attitudes were quite incredible - very normal working class dudes with tens of thousands a year to spend on any serious hobby. (Like spending thousands on amplifiers, then thousands shipping them to pacific islands and up mountains etc.) They would also have cottages with arrays of recreational vehicles of different sorts and so on.

You can also see this in the pinball community as there is an age boundary when it drops off entirely.

It is amazing how quickly the normal expected standard of life in north america has taken a nosedive while the property values have exploded. Europe is even worse.

There's two dimensions to consider here: many hobbies require monetary investment, and many hobbies require quite a bit of space

You basically cannot have woodworking for instance as your hobby if you live in a small apartment

Yes, maybe there's some kind of Maker-space you can go to, but there may not be. That also just creates a barrier to entry because now you need to deal with a membership to the space, travel time, etc. And you still need space at home to store finished projects too!

So people are pretty restricted in the activities they actually can do if they don't have money or space to do things

Like rapidly declining fertility rates, there is enough will to complain, no will to change anything (imho, based on observations and the data). Maybe things need to get worse before they get better, I think we're just arguing over how bad the situation will need to get before change is made (structural demographics, socioeconomics, etc).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992783 (citations)

They’re either dumber than a slightly-bright 8th grade science student, or simply don’t care about the substance of trying to make decisions based on good data, but just the appearance, the theater, of doing so. Either way, outcome’s the same.

Whatever you do, don’t point it out. They will not listen, because they don’t care.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342203 ("HN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time")

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/asia/tokyo-government-4-day-w... ("CNN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time")

Anecdata, most people seem to move out to less dense and more private parts of the country as they get older and accrue more agency in their lives. I imagine they get tired of people.

It's more about treating others with kindness and respect.