It is also the second largest consumer of them (making local production a good option). Excluding Tesla's in house production, all other battery makers of any scale are foreign companies.

Aren't Tesla batteries made by Panasonic (inside Tesla factories)?

Not the newer 4680s.

Tesla makes 4680 in-house, but without all that fancy dry processed cathodes that promises up to ~20% reduction in cost.

LG should be mass-producing 4680's by now (and dry battery electrode by 2027). Panasonic? Maybe soon, but dunno when.

We're third, between Poland and Hungary, lmao, and other countries are making serious investments.

Also, the US battery production is almost exclusively Tesla, which is actually Panasonic, using a process that has still not been Americanized, using Japanese equipment, the most critical of which "in an area not accessible to non-Panasonic employees." It is also behind China on cost. Oh, and did I mention it is government-subsidized to a hilarious degree? In other words, it's a joke.

To be fair, you asked yourself for about a trillion of subsidies?

>using a process that has still not been Americanized, using Japanese equipment, the most critical of which "in an area not accessible to non-Panasonic employees." It is also behind China on cost. Oh, and did I mention it is government-subsidized

The subsidies aren't the problem here. The problem is that they are uncompetitive islands of foreign technology that lead nowhere, and they are _more expensive even after being heavily subsidized_.

I always enjoy threads where US HNers casually explain in a derogatory way that they should not depend on anyone for anything remotely useful.

The cognitive dissonance between these threads and the ones where local law and taxes are an insult to their right to free trade is amazing.

It might surprise you to hear that I’m both American and European, and when in Europe I also encourage manufacturing. Being able to make things is a strategic advantage, period. Never did I say that we should not depend on anyone for anything. I simply believe that we should not depend on others for everything.

I’m also not sure what you found derogatory in my comment, and I don’t understand what you’re getting at about local laws and taxes and how that would be relevant here.

LG's 65/115GWh (online/planned) plant in Poland is the biggest battery factory in EU.

But I believe the US surpassed the EU this year with the GM/LG's Ultium 2 factory. I have no doubt in my mind that the US battery manufacturing will become more competitive as they scale up and commoditize: GM for instance also reported a 45% decline in battery cell cost YoY in 3Q 2023; followed by a sequential quarterly drop of $30/cell from the 1st 2024. With AMPC ($35/KWh), GM's per cell costs drops close to $80/KWh and is expected to fall further -- below $70/KWh in a couple of years.

  Panasonic (NV): 40 GWh
  Tesla (4680)  : 9+?? GWh 
  GM/LG Ultium 1: 45 GWh (2022)
  GM/LG Ultium 2: 45 GWh (2024)
  SK Georgia    : 21 GWh (2021)