I'd buy one of those tomorrow if they were sold here (i.e. in the USA).

I'm sure the advertisement done by those companies have nothing to do with them being seen as status symbols (and preferring bigger cars in general)

It's also because the used car market in the US is strong.

Scion and Saturn were both recent entry level brands for major car manufacturers. Both of them were subsumed into their parent companies and most of their models were discontinued. If the models were good for business, those would have continued.

Not being "good for business" doesn't mean customers don't want them.

I believe the idea of compact cars being popular in America is more of a Hacker News trope. Over the years, we've repeatedly seen subcompact cars, both EV and ICE, enter the market only to fade away. The reality is that they aren't particularly popular—most Americans simply don't want them.

Exactly this. It's the marketing

The marketing that works on people who then buy cars?

I love this narrative that marketing teams don't push things on customers

Obviously, it’s a bit of organic demand, manufactured demand, and what is produced. I don’t want to write a tomb on social media every time I desire to explain one concept.

"Consumers don’t want tiny cheap laptops. In the past few years, people have financed progressively more expensive laptops over much longer periods, suggesting they don’t want the cheapest options.

SWEs view laptops as status symbols, not just tools. Hence, tech companies, like Apple, sell laptops as status symbols, not just utilitarian commodities."

This seems just as correct. What point are you trying to make?

Though I've been in sw dev for nearly a decade I've not seen other software developers brag about their laptops and if anything, scoff at modern consumerist non-repairable equipment.

And yet I'm constantly issued high dollar laptops that are way overspecced to run a web browser (no computer yet built can run Outlook desktop without crying) and emacs. When I point this out I'm told some combination of "this is the standard for your job title" and "developers need zippy machines". My coworkers seem relieved to finally be done with the "junk" they were issued three years ago that is still massively overspecced.

Anecdotally, my observation is that SWEs are the group of people who are the least likely to think of laptops as status symbols. People buy $1500 laptops because (they think) they work efficiently on those machines. Otherwise, people are very happy to use $300 Chromebooks or framework laptops as long as they get the job done. Many people put very little thoughts into which laptop they buy.

You probably are thinking about a different group of people.

SWEs are not a random demographic. They are FAR more likely than the broader public to care about function than form. And their laptop isn’t seen by everyone in all of their social circles, as a car more likely is.

I guess it's a bit of an arms race as well - if a heavier car hits a lighter car, the G forces in the lighter car will be higher, all else being equal.

The tragedy of commons is that if everyone bought a lighter car, everyone would be safer, not just the drivers but pedestrians and cyclists as well. Especially if "crash compatibility" was regulated and enforced.

That's, at least, how it seems to me while not actually living in the US - feel free to let me know if I'm completely off.

I have at least one friend with an SUV for that exact reason.

The great irony of that arms race is that the bus or tram will almost always win.

I'm living in EU and was fed up with SUV which have high positioned front lights which beam through my tiny car. Bought a small SUV instead to have a higher position and comfortable ride. What a tragedy, I've became the same person who pissed me off previously.

It's also really annoying at a roundabout that you can no longer see through the car next to you.

People in this thread seem to somehow think marketing is pushing people to want xyz.

That _cannot_ be the singular or even primary driver of a movement. Car manufacturers don't just make a car in a vacuum. They make what the market is asking for, and _then_ marketing steps in. Very few companies, like apple and Tesla, can foist weird stuff on consumers and have them like it. And even in those cases, they are really just building something they believe to be the faster horse.

There's a reason Tesla wanted to build and SUV and a model 3. There's a key target price point in the US for a car. No amount of marketing can make people buy a car they simply cannot afford.

> No amount of marketing can make people buy a car they simply cannot afford.

And yet here we are and marketing has convinced people in the US to borrow $1.6 trillion to buy cars they cant afford.

Afford doesn't mean the same thing as able to pay for in cash right now. Otherwise you'd say people can't afford houses, when you really mean people can't afford / are unable to get a mortgage that will cover their house.

Nobody forced these people to take our loans. The auto industry bends to trends, it doesn't create them.

The fact is, with or without marketing, people want nice things. And people have historically been willing to buy them on credit/loans. At least for our current capitalist society, that seems to be ab inherent feature.

> Afford doesn't mean the same thing as able to pay for in cash right now.

I believe there is an ad guy from the 1960's (an old pro copywriter, a Greek, named Teddy) who managed to convince the world of just that.

I bought a perfectly fine VW Polo in 2011 for £9,500

But after owning it for 2 years I realised totally organically that what I really wanted was almost the same car but for £12,500, with some extra unnecessary features.

I'm so glad VW stepped in and delivered what I had been secretly desiring. A heavier, more complex car at a higher price. Thank you, VW!

> suggesting they don’t want the cheapest options.

Suggesting that they have no financial education... The average loan duration is something like 70 months right now, with a mind boggling 7%-10% interest rate.

People make dumb decisions if they don't have the knowledge/education, by the time they're done paying their 40k car loan they paid 60k and the car is worth 20k.