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Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:26AM (#42017863)
Such a sophisticated breakdown; I specifically appreciate the revelatory non-sequitur at the end that makes it clear what your analytical lens is.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by javagram on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:27AM (#42017887)
I’ve worked with several excellent Indian SWE colleagues in my career.

That said, they had all moved to the USA. In the past, top engineers would come to the USA for higher salaries, mobility, and sometimes for American citizenship and its benefits.

If companies stop hiring and supporting immigration to the USA you may find more top engineers staying in India.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by debacle on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:27AM (#42017885)
Few of the good Indian engineers stay in India, in my experience.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by mportela on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:24AM (#42017827)
That's actually quite offensive, especially the last remark.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by arcen on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:29AM (#42017915)
It's a way to signal that one is racist, but oh well the mask of superiority is slowly falling apart.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:26AM (#42017860)
Maybe, but I think it's true unfortunately. India has a lot of problems and it's very obvious.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by aprilthird2021 on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:27AM (#42017870)
You're the problem
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Monday November 04, 2024 @07:37AM (#42040978)
So if your house is on fire and I am pointing it out to you, I also started the fire?
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ryandrake on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:27AM (#42017875)
> "No offense to India" ... and then ... "Nothing good will come from a culture that is built on garbage"

I don't think this is the right online forum for this stuff, my dude.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by imran-iq on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:25AM (#42017850)
That's just blatantly racist. As a counter example look at kitty which is pushing terminal standards forward which is written by an Indian
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:27AM (#42017880)
How is it racist? I have nothing against indians as a people but they obviously can't take care of their nature as a country.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:28AM (#42017903)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5AeGKSDVdE

Are there any essential characteristics of American culture responsible for this?

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by s1artibartfast on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:57AM (#42018257)
Yes? There are cultures where this would be flat out unacceptable, prevented, and remediated.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @12:02PM (#42018328)
Where would OP's implied correlation with software quality emerge, exactly?
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by s1artibartfast on Friday November 01, 2024 @12:09PM (#42018384)
Im not interested in steel-manning the position that cultural acceptance of trash translates to bad code. I am defending the fact that humans do in fact have cultures, and those cultures have real world impacts. You would not see scenes like that in Japan or Singapore, or at least much more rarely.
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @01:24PM (#42019343)
>Im not interested in steel-manning the position that cultural acceptance of trash translates to bad code

Okay, but quite obviously OP is.

>I am defending the fact that humans do in fact have cultures, and those cultures have real world impacts. You would not see scenes like that in Japan or Singapore, or at least much more rarely.

Indians are such a major presence in Singapore that Tamil is one of its official languages. Littering is also a part of both countries' criminal codes, with hefty fines and, in SG's case, jail time being prescribed. It seems pretty clear, then, that cultural essentiality is at least insufficient as an explanation in these contexts.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by s1artibartfast on Friday November 01, 2024 @02:08PM (#42019813)
Law and policy is a reflection and product of culture, or at least the dominant culture. There is influence and feedback that goes both ways.

You can ask why Singapore and Japan have harsh fines, and India does not. You can also look at how people behave when there isn't a cop watching them.

At a high level, law is just a tool for enforcing cultural norms, and is only sufficient to police small amounts of deviation on the margin. If the majority, or even a significant minority, of people woke up tomorrow and decided to break the law, there would be little that could be done in any country.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @03:10PM (#42020474)
>You can ask why Singapore and Japan have harsh fines, and India does not.

Sure, and you can also ask why drawing conclusions from the ether is superior to relying on examining actually measurable parameters.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by s1artibartfast on Friday November 01, 2024 @03:46PM (#42020801)
Im not opposed to direct measures. You could do observational studies looking at how frequently people litter when nobody is watching or surveys of how bad people feel littering is.

This would help you get a pulse of the comparative culture. That said, observing culture directly IS measurable.

You look at culture that leaves trash everywhere and that itself is a data point.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Tuesday November 05, 2024 @02:39AM (#42049420)
Sorry for the late reply, but I was rate limited by HN.

If you live in a culture that does not appreciate quality and the only focus is to make money whatever way possible, you will do whatever in order to make money. The likelihood of people starting to produce quality stuff in such a community is very low.

If everyone around you is throwing trash on the street, you will likely do that as well. You must have your basic needs met before you can start worry about things like quality and unfortunately many people in India does not have this kind of security afaik.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Monday November 04, 2024 @07:14AM (#42040847)
Yes obviously. I can name a few:

1. Doctors that prescribe drugs and shouldn't be prescribed to a lot of people.

2. A too unregulated big pharma that makes a lot of money selling these drugs and pushing them to the doctors.

3. Unhealthy food that leads to people taking these unnecessary drugs in the first place.

4. No social security net for people that obviously need help and are unable to help themselves.

This summer I visited the US and let me tell you that the food is really, really bad and probably a big source to a lot of issues the US have in my opinion. If you consume hazardous foods, you will get sick both mentally and physically and it was nearly impossible to get good healthy food during my visit. After my visit to Bulgaria it was easily the worst breakfasts and food in general I've had. I was bloated and feeling like shit the entire time in I was in the US and chocked of all the homeless people clearly on drugs that were just hanging around everywhere in the big cities. I actually lost 2kg during my stay because I was a bit disgusted by the food. It was just fat with extra fat. Every. Single. Meal.

Then I went to Italy, and my stomach was back to normal almost immediately and I've never had better food than in italy. My stomach was thanking me every day and it's easy to see why. They have make everything from fresh produce, basically no conservatives and other crap that both the US and the western/northen europe have in basically everything.

Man the bread in Italy is on another level and available everywhere. Even if you order a sandwich in a gas station it's like freshly baked and tastes amazing. When you go to restaurants, the pasta is made the same day as you order it and so on. Zero km restaurants.

The world should copy whatever Italy is doing food wise because man they have shit figured out.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by aprilthird2021 on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:26AM (#42017856)
> No offense to Indians but... I worked with a few Indians... Nothing good will come from their garbage culture

Yikes. India has over a billion people, I'm sure quite a few of them write good software, I'm sure you use some of that software daily...

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:29AM (#42017917)
Yes obviously there are exceptions to the rule. I use Postman, which is an awesome software built by an indian (I think).

Also I didn't say their culture was garbage, I said it was built on garbage which is a bit different.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by cholantesh on Friday November 01, 2024 @11:31AM (#42017947)
How?
Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by ecmascript on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:37AM (#42059613)
If you are living in a culture that throws garbage on the streets around you, are generally unsafe and a bit of corruption it is hard to build honest things on such a shaky foundation.

You need stability and order in order for honest business to thrive. It's getting better in india (I think) but there is still a long way to go for them in order to seriously compete with the west. You can't really innovate if you have a hard time surviving.

Re:Google employees pressure execs at all-hands meeting for ... by dang on Friday November 08, 2024 @03:16PM (#42090111)
Nationalistic/ethnic/racial/whatever-this-is attack will get you banned here. No more of this please.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42017707.