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Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by bawolff on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @04:19AM (#41846202)
The main issue is lack of a working revocation mechanism.

Servers get compromised sometimes, people do stupid things with keys, etc.

We dont have a really good way of revoking keys after something bad happens. We have some bad ways, but they kind of suck.

An additional reason might be making it easier to punish a misbehabing CA (CAs are often too big to fail, you cant ban them without breaking half the internet)

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by rightbyte on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @04:22AM (#41846239)
> We dont have a really good way of revoking keys after something bad happens.

Why would there be. If the key is 'revokable' that is a weakness in it self.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by dspillett on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @06:42AM (#41847156)
> If the key is 'revokable' that is a weakness in it self.

Ish. The threat of that is part of a different risk model, and probably less serious.

A long-lived certificate that ends up being able to be used by a malicious party (perhaps due to a leak of the private key) could be serious for many users if the certificate can't be reliably revoked, which they currently can't be.

A mistaken or malicious revocation if someone were to manage that could be an issue to the service operator (users can't get in) but this is a safer failure than users connecting to a malicious shadow service due, for example, to an accidentally exposed private key and a DNS poisoning attack.

As others have mentioned: if revocation worked better currently, this would be less of an issue.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by Dylan16807 on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @04:26AM (#41846277)
A mistaken revocation is orders of magnitude less harmful then a failure to revoke. If revocation worked pretty reliably, that would be an improvement over the status quo.
Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by gruez on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @04:25AM (#41846273)
>If the key is 'revokable' that is a weakness in it self.

???

Why?

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by LegionMammal978 on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @08:55AM (#41848072)
I'd read it primarily as censorship risk. If a CA is under a government that wants your website taken down, they can just lean on the CA to stop renewing any certificates for it, as opposed to futzing around with ISPs or DNS providers that can only have a local impact. Or alternatively, the CAs in the future might directly use their monopoly to decide who's good and evil (especially on "integrity of the network" grounds against those judged to be spammers et al.).

At least perceived censorship risk is why the archive.is guy always uses HTTP links and not HTTPS links for his site, iirc.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by ndsipa_pomu on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @11:13AM (#41849468)
I'd classify that as very low risk. If a CA's business is compromised by a government, then it's pretty easy to just switch to using a different CA, preferably in a different jurisdiction to work around the censorship.

I don't really get the argument behind using HTTP links to avoid the censorship risk with HTTPS - just provide both and get the best of both worlds. Also, using HTTP is far more prone to being interfered with in transit - I recall BT (or their ISP business department) trialling that and injecting adverts into HTTP pages. I can't recall any instance of HTTPS being censored by restricting certificates.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by hulitu on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @01:51PM (#41851112)
> I'd classify that as very low risk.

The majority of CAs are in the US.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by ndsipa_pomu on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @02:14PM (#41851402)
Whilst that could be a problem, there are some CAs that aren't based in the US. I consider it a low risk issue as I haven't heard of it happening. It'd be more likely for your IP to be cut off rather than attempting to deny an SSL cert.
Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by yugcesofni on Wednesday October 16, 2024 @12:18PM (#41860905)
FWIW, a slight clarification here would be that the majority of TLS certificates are issued by CAs in the US, but the majority of CAs are not headquartered in the US.
Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by bawolff on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @02:26PM (#41851550)
As you say though, the risk of revocation is low, since anyone who wants to do that can just fail to renew (renewing and revoking are different operations).

I guess it decreases the lead time of censorship. That seems pretty minor though.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by hulitu on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @01:49PM (#41851092)
You cannot run this program. Invalid certificate.
Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by bawolff on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @04:32AM (#41846325)
> Why would there be. If the key is 'revokable' that is a weakness in it self.

What??

This does not make sense. Keys are revocable in most crypto systems.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by Arnt on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @08:54AM (#41848058)
Others have answered on one level. I want to answer on another.

A few older crypto mechanisms were designed around trusting one thing totally. For example, everything's secure until the end of time provided that the user keeps a private key totally private at all times, with no interruption, ever, and if the user lapses then the overall mechanism breaks really badly.

They were complicated mechanisms held together by a screw made of a metal which was assumed to be infinitely strong.

The current fashion is to trust thing in a more limited way, and to design systems such that they won't blow up spectactularly if something breaks. Being able to revoke keys is part of that, it is a weakness that helps to avoid a really bad weakness.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by olliej on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @01:05PM (#41850642)
Wait, what is the threat model for revocation being a weakness?
Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by jmclnx on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @09:50AM (#41848591)
No kidding. Where I use to work, certs are a nightmare.

For example, some sites were closed and we asked the site owner to revoke their cert. We got "What does that mean ?", they had lost their private key.

Also other departments had certs that expired, they had no idea what to do. I left over a year ago, and someone who knows more about certs that I do left not long afterwards. I know many certs are due expire soon, good luck to them.

The point of this is I can see 45 day certs being a huge issue for that company. When I left they were looking into non-expiring certs. I have no idea what they ended up doing.

FWIW, this is a fortune 500 company.

Re:SSL certificate lifetimes are going down. Dates proposed.... by ozim on Tuesday October 15, 2024 @10:24AM (#41848956)
Well with ACME theory is that certs should renew automatically so no one should cate.

But to set it all up in F500 size company, that is totally different discussion and not only TLS certs but all kind of other cert auth that happens there.