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Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by witchammer on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:35AM (#41784809)
> The state of nature is no tax

> You don't get to argue from the point that your preferred taxation regime is simply how things should be

Those two statements seem mildly contradictory.

Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by _bin_ on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:44AM (#41784859)
Not really. Trace the course of history and the natural state of man is much closer to what Hobbes described. In the wild, homo sapiens doesn't have a taxation system. As we built up civilizations, we created taxes as I described. And neither am I arguing for my preference to stick with how we mostly run our taxation regime (tax value when moved, not value at rest) without some justification for it.
Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by consp on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @01:56AM (#41784927)
No tax in the wild? In my view, sure there was: you get water and share it, the other guy hunts and shares it. The fact no centralised system existed does not mean no tax on the community was levied in some way.
Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by mbrumlow on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @11:39AM (#41789109)
I don’t believe sharing was all that common. But the difference in your story is voluntary sharing.

Once the hunter demands water for meat it becomes an exchange, and is the basis of our capitalist society.

Taxes in that system would be more like 10 men who did not hunt or gather demanded you give them food and water or they would beat your face in.

Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by supplied_demand on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @06:12PM (#41793298)
==Taxes in that system would be more like 10 men who did not hunt or gather demanded you give them food and water or they would beat your face in.==

This seems a little dramatic. Are the 10 men demanding food and water also building roads, cleaning the water, removing waste, educating children, protecting collective assets, or any of the other things that Governments do with collective taxes? If not, the analogy falls apart.

Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by gperkins978 on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @09:06AM (#41787527)
The state of nature has no schools, no water, no sewer and no police. If one is going to live in a civilized nation, he should pay his share of taxes. Capital gains is 15%. That is not an outrageous amount. Everyone should pay because everyone benefits. One is free to leave and live in tax shelter principality or Sultanate.

There is a problem with high taxes on earned income, but anyone complaining about the 15% capital gains tax has problems. The estate tax only applies to this who are very, very fortunate. These are not even earned. Again, if one hates his country, he can move to Dubai, Bermuda or the Glorious Sultanate of Brunei and enjoy their lifestyle.

I do understand that people in California get angry because the state is so poorly run, but most of the US has easily avoided the self-created problems of California and New York city.

Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by HPsquared on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @11:51AM (#41789270)
There are countries that don't tax their citizens. The state owns assets instead. This is basically the traditional way. (King owns land, etc.)
Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by supplied_demand on Wednesday October 09, 2024 @06:09PM (#41793259)
==most of the US has easily avoided the self-created problems of California and New York city.==

Two places which produce an outsized share of the country's businesses and wealth? Seems like they are doing something right.

Re:Who died and left the US $7B? by Nasrudith on Thursday October 10, 2024 @02:59PM (#41802165)
Fair enough that they are outsized productivity but they are also two places which have managed to basically population-cap themselves, primarily through real-estate mismanagement and refusal to build sufficiently to make it worth living there even as infamously high paying areas.