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Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by ben_w on Saturday October 05, 2024 @12:52PM (#41751173)
> Whatever you mean, it took 13 billion years and the whole universe as far as we can tell to create the 20 watt human intelligence brain.

It's grossly unreasonable to include the entire history of the universe given the Earth only formed about 4 billion years ago; and given that evolution wasn't even aiming for intelligence, even starting from our common ancestors being small rodents 65 million years ago is wildly overstating the effort required — even the evolution of primates is too far back without intentional selective breeding.

> You're positing a way to create human intelligence-like in a bottle, that's the same as speculating about the shape of a reality where we have FTL travel or teleportation or whatever else you fancy.

FTL may well well be impossible.

If you seriously think human intelligence is impossible, then you also think you don't exist: You, yourself, are a human like intelligence in a bottle. The bottle being your skull.

> This can give us great automation, but it won't solve physics, global warming, poverty or give us human intelligence in a chip.

AI has already been in widesprad use in physics for a while now, well before the current zeitgeist of LLMs.

There's a Y Combinator startup: "Charge Robotics is building robots that automate the most labor-intensive parts of solar construction".

Poverty has many causes, some of which are already being reduced or resolved by existing systems — and that's been the case since one of the ancestor companies of IBM, Tabulating Machine Company, was doing punched cards for the US census.

As for human intelligence on a chip? Well, (1) it's been quite a long time since humans were capable of designing the circuits manually, given the feature size is now at the level where quantum mechanics must be accounted for or you get surprise tunnelling between gates; and (2) one of the things being automated is feature segmentation and labelling of neural micrographs, i.e. literally brain scanning: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32619485/

Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by namaria on Saturday October 05, 2024 @01:00PM (#41751242)
I never said human intelligence is impossible.

All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics.

Humans evolved on a planet that was just so. The elements on Earth that make life possible couldn't have been created in a younger universe. So it take the full history of the universe to produce human intelligence. It also doesn't exist in a vacuum. Current human civilization is not a collection of 8 billion 20 watt boxes.

> As for human intelligence on a chip? Well, (1) it's been quite a long time since humans were capable of designing the circuits manually, given the feature size is now at the level where quantum mechanics must be accounted for or you get surprise tunnelling between gates; and (2) one of the things being automated is feature segmentation and labelling of neural micrographs, i.e. literally brain scanning: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32619485/

I don't understand any of this so I won't comment.

Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by ben_w on Saturday October 05, 2024 @01:30PM (#41751444)
> All I am saying is that Sam Altman's promises (remember the original topic) hinge on breaking thermodynamics

If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible.

> The elements on Earth that make life possible couldn't have been created in a younger universe

Those statements also apply to the silicon and doping agents used in chip manufacture. They tell you nothing of relevance, we're not doing Carl Sagan's Apple Pie from scratch with AI, we're trying to get a thing like us.

Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by swiftcoder on Saturday October 05, 2024 @02:46PM (#41751995)
> If it hinged on that, then you would actually be saying it's impossible

"impossible with the approach OpenAI is using" != "impossible"

Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by namaria on Thursday October 10, 2024 @10:16AM (#41799072)
Look, any sufficiently complex autonomous system necessitates a bigger, more complex one to maintain it's functionality. The more complex, the harder it is to deal with the entropy that this system is removing form it's target action area.

Eventually you need a whole universe capable of sustaining self reproducing intelligent systems. The way to get intelligent autonomous and sufficiently complex systems to do anything non trivial is life.

Anyone trying to sell you a box they say is capable of non trivial, adaptive, complex behavior autonomously is selling you a perpetual motion machine: a pretense that thermodynamics can be suspended at will.

Re:It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word by namaria on Thursday October 10, 2024 @10:33AM (#41799247)
Yes, I am saying that AGI is impossible.

AGI is either human intelligence behind the curtains or a pie in the sky.