I've used emacs for ten years and vim for twenty. You know something I've noticed? vim users always show up in emacs spaces to poke fun at emacs users, for some reason. But the reverse was never true anecdotally, when I used vim only.

I use emacs because people in #vim on freenode were mean to me ten years ago for having an interest in Lisp, and told me to just use emacs if I was interested in that..

ok I said. #emacs treated me respectfully. ten years later, emacs has a lively community. vim has some forks.

I wonder why this is. Just something to think about.

I’m only teasing. emacs is on my list but in evil mode only for the time being.

yeah sorry IDK why it bugged me today. I just love both these tools so much.. the holy war is dumb :(

emacs has a vi implementation, you just turn on evil mode.

I don't know why this is so hard for vimmers to understand. evil mode will work with this.

I'm only half joking. The holy war between vim and emacs is like a bunch of machinists arguing over whether they prefer a lathe, or an entire machine shop that also includes a lathe if you want it.

> The holy war between vim and emacs is like a bunch of machinists arguing over whether they prefer a lathe, or an entire machine shop that also includes a lathe if you want it.

IMHO not really a fair comparison. There are signifcant differences in the feel and the workflow between using vim and using emacs in evil mode. Other people have preferences that differ from yours. I have many years experience using both vim and emacs (in evil-mode), and I see both sides. Don't get me wrong, emacs in evil mode is great, and I would not want to be without it, but it does not 100% reproduce the workflow of logging in to a terminal and editing text there in vim.

The differences are significant. I'm not saying the experience in emacs is bad, it's just different. If you already have, say, 10 years of muscle memory built up from using vim in a terminal, it will take a fair amount of adjustment to move to an emacs/evil-mode way of doing things.

I personally see no reason that I have to pick one or the other, and at present I spend a lot of time in both editors. I realize that would drive some people crazy, but I'm OK with my preferences being a little unusual.

As someone who uses both, no, the differences are almost entirely cosmetic.

The holy war is dumb and over. The jokes are stupid. Whenever anyone tries to bring it up, just tell them to knock it off.

I heartily disagree. The differences are almost entirely non-cosmetic, IMHO.

I am fine with the "holy war" talk as long as it is just good-natured tongue-in-cheek fun (which it often is, in my experience). Often the stupidity of the jokes is purposeful, and is intended to be programmers poking fun at themselves almost as much as they are poking fun of their peers.

However, if someone, in all seriousness, says "you are just stupid or unskilled if you use X" (where 'X' is whichever editor you choose to use), well I'll just tune that out at the first opportunity.

For the same reason vimmers despise IDEs: we don’t need it. We just need a tool to edit text and the rest we can do with other Unix tools. ;-)

OK, so back to the original point of the thread: where is the vim implementation of something like kubed?

There isn't one, because vim isn't a general-purpose application development platform, but emacs is.

If people don't want to access general-purpose applications from within their text editor, that is fine, but then why complain on threads about new emacs packages for people who do?

At this point, why not use nano, or simply echo your code into text files? You don't need to see your code while writing it when you have cat and less.

nano? pff, just use sed

I knew I was in the presence of a hard-core programmer when my interim advisor unironcially used sed to make a tiny edit to a config file. He just up-and-used it correctly like the first time. I was amazed.

so just open vim when you don't need the rest? that's what I do. they're just tools. you can use both of them as appropriate.

but also the grand parent I was replying to wants to control kubernetes from vim.

so do you want to control kubernetes from vim, or do you dislike IDEs? you can't have both a minimal editor and an editor that does everything all in one program

just install evil mode in emacs and leave vim installed and use both and you can have your cake and eat it too! sometimes I think programmers just don't want to be happy

Oh, please stop. There's little need for language like, "despise" here and you're just stirring the pot.