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Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by okdood64 on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:36PM (#41595523)
Do you know if I can emulate car keys with it? Say a relatively modern BMW? Or is there some safety mechanism.

(Not for nefarious purposes, but just in case I can’t find my keys.)

Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by obituary_latte on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:42PM (#41595591)
Not natively. There is other firmware out there, though, that allows such functionality. Depending on where you live, it may be illegal to even try, though, hence the native firmware locking out such use (you can record or visualize but not save/replay).
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by echoangle on Thursday September 19, 2024 @04:25PM (#41596054)
Just recording and replaying wouldn’t help you anyways, the code is rolling to prevent replay attacks.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by FridgeSeal on Thursday September 19, 2024 @07:26PM (#41597375)
Plenty of devices use the Keeloq protocol for rolling codes which is pretty straightforward to break in modern hardware.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by virtue3 on Thursday September 19, 2024 @05:37PM (#41596611)
I think if you have enough replays you can deconstruct the rolling code. Not sure.

Also there are ways to desync/resync your key so you might be able to “add a key” with the flipper with certain firmwares.

Cloning the current key and using it can desync it from your car. Super annoying. Be careful

Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by echoangle on Thursday September 19, 2024 @05:44PM (#41596661)
I don’t know exactly how the rolling key works but wouldn’t it be kind of like having a secret stored in the key that’s needed to generate the next code? If it’s designed properly, recording a few thousand codes shouldn’t tell you anything about the next code, just like you can’t deduce private keys by looking at a few thousand encrypted files. I have no clue if that’s really how it works, so I would be happy to be corrected if my mental model is wrong here.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by bigiain on Thursday September 19, 2024 @07:10PM (#41597284)
> If it’s designed properly,

That phrase is doing a lot of heave lifting there...

(This is only what I've read, but as i understand it many rolling code keys can be broken by recording three button presses while the keyfob is out of range of the car, then brute forcing the seed.)

Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by bongodongobob on Thursday September 19, 2024 @07:07PM (#41597266)
Basically yeah. You'd need millions of replays to even have a chance. Cracking basic wifi back in the day required a couple days worth of sniffed packets. I'd imagine this is similar, if there is in fact a way to do it.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by FridgeSeal on Thursday September 19, 2024 @07:27PM (#41597380)
Rolling code protocols like Keeloq can be broken pretty easily (apparently).
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by aftbit on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:59PM (#41595792)
So far I have not been able to emulate the keys on either of my cars, a 2001 Ford Ranger and a 2019 Subaru Outback. I think the Ranger is probably possible, but I haven't figured it out yet.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by fullstop on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:55PM (#41595759)
Don't do it. The key can easily get messed up if the rolling code isn't handled appropriately.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday September 19, 2024 @04:08PM (#41595885)
The old Ford transponder keys don't do rolling codes.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by askvictor on Thursday September 19, 2024 @05:02PM (#41596369)
So an attacker can cause your car keys not to work?
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by fullstop on Thursday September 19, 2024 @05:07PM (#41596407)
Yes, as well as gain access to your vehicle. This has been reported on quite a bit over the last couple of years.
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by dumah on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:41PM (#41595577)
Emulating the rolling code protocol would desync your keys.

What ever device you’d want to use as a backup would need to capture information sent from the vehicle during the last unlock.

Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by jrussino on Thursday September 19, 2024 @04:44PM (#41596212)
I'd love to have this, mainly so that I could have a single dongle on my keychain for both my and my wife's car. I know others have said that there are issues around rolling codes. But it's possible to get official duplicate / replacement keys; how does that work?
Re:MicroPython on Flipper Zero by Rebelgecko on Thursday September 19, 2024 @05:39PM (#41596624)
IIRC it's somewhat possible but for some cars if you do it wrong it makes the car and key go out of sync which causes a lot of issues