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Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by n2d4 on Sunday September 15, 2024 @12:04PM (#41548277)
For those curious, the reason why a public key lets you find a private key more efficiently is Pollard's rho algorithm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollard%27s_rho_algorithm_for_...
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by CamperBob2 on Sunday September 15, 2024 @05:34PM (#41550626)
These keys are based on elliptic curves rather than products of primes, aren't they?
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by matthewdgreen on Sunday September 15, 2024 @05:46PM (#41550714)
There is one rho algorithm for discrete logarithms and one for factoring. Published three years apart.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by sltkr on Sunday September 15, 2024 @09:50PM (#41552011)
Neither of which helps with elliptic curve cryptography.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by arcastroe on Sunday September 15, 2024 @10:31PM (#41552199)
the problem of finding discrete logarithms is the same problem as breaking elliptic curve cryptography.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by GTP on Monday September 16, 2024 @07:16AM (#41554887)
Technically, while the two problems share the same name, the one on elliptic curves is matematically different from the one over finite fields modulo a prime number.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by AnotherGoodName on Monday September 16, 2024 @12:34PM (#41557841)
I politely don’t understand this. It’s taught in cryptography 101 that breaking ecc is just solving the discrete logarithm problem and there’s a ton of online articles about how to break ecc if you’ve solved the discrete logarithm problem (not that anyone has).
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by GTP on Monday September 16, 2024 @12:54PM (#41558034)
It's indeed called the discrete logarithm problem both in the case of finite fields modulo some number and elliptic curves modulo a number. In the first case, you are reversing an exponentiation, so you're indeed computing a logarithm. But in the case of elliptic curves you're not dealing with exponentiation, you're instead reversing the multiplication of a curve element (i. e. a point) by a scalar. The two problems (and the way you solve them) look similar in the end, and I think this is why we ended up using the same name. But, if we nitpick, those are different operations and so the two problems are different, despite the similarities.

Note for cryptographers/matematicians: I know that "reversing" isn't the correct term here, so you could accuse me of the same sin I'm calling out in my previous comment. But it makes the explanation shorter while still conveying the correct meaning in the end.

Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by AlexCoventry on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @11:37AM (#41581145)
There's a family of discrete logarithm problems, one for each representation of a group. (Where I mean "representation" in the usual sense, not the precise mathematical one. It's an important distinction because the secp256k1 group, for instance, is isomorphic to all cyclic groups of the same order, but the discrete logarithm problem on secp256k1 is harder than the additive group on Z/<order of secp256k1>Z, because the isomorphism is computationally intractable.) So there isn't simply one monolithic discrete logarithm problem.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by n2d4 on Monday September 16, 2024 @02:38AM (#41553374)
Pollard's rho algorithm can be applied to not just numbers but any cyclic group, which secp256k1 (the elliptic curve used by Bitcoin) is.
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by mrb on Sunday September 15, 2024 @06:38PM (#41551063)
Yes, specifically secp256k1
Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by andrewla on Monday September 16, 2024 @10:59AM (#41556762)
This seems orthogonal to the concept. More efficiently than what?

Having the public key is easier than having an address because an address is the hash of a public key. So in order to crack an address, you must first find a public key that produces that address, and then find a private key corresponding to the public key.

Re:Bitcoin puzzle #66 was solved: 6.6 BTC (~$400k) withdrawn by n2d4 on Monday September 16, 2024 @05:39PM (#41561240)
More efficient than brute forcing a private key, as you would have to do when you don't have the public key.

Sure, finding a private key whose public key's hash is given might be 2x slower, but Pollard's rho algorithm is 2^128 times faster.

Asymptotically, an additional hash at the end doesn't matter when you brute force. But it prevents you from using Pollard's rho algorithm, which does make a difference asymptotically.