Where has all the money in the world gone?

Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by mixmax on Saturday June 23, 2012 @08:34AM (#4150702)

The problem isn't socialism, it's a divergence of productivity between the northern and southern regions of the euro area. When you combine this with a shared currency you're asking for trouble.

Note that the socialist nordic countries have stellar economies.

I've noticed a lot of Americans blame the euro crisis on socialism which,is interesting since it doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny. I'd be interested in hearing why this is. Is it the media, an American distrust of socialism or something else?

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by jl6 on Saturday June 23, 2012 @09:13AM (#4150761)

People use the word Socialism when they mean something like "perversion of incentives". We perceive that Socialism incentivizes bad choices, like having more children than you could afford without government benefits, or making investments that appear less risky because you assume a government bailout will protect you.

As you point out, the nordic countries show that perverse incentives don't necessarily follow from Socialism. And indeed, America has its own non-Socialist perverse incentives such as encouraging pollution by not enforcing payment of the environmental externalities.

But all things considered globally, more socialism does tend to imply more perverse incentives.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by mixmax on Saturday June 23, 2012 @09:56AM (#4150852)

Thanks for the good explanation.

However you end your comment by an unfounded claim that more socialism tends to imply perverse incentives. The same could be claimed of capitalism (or probably any other ..ism), see the banking sector and American healthcare for good examples.

In the rather socialist Denmark (where I happen to be from) when you break a leg you go to the doctor to get it fixed for free, and then you call your employer and tell him you won't be working for the next week, but you'll receive your paycheck nonetheless. When you get a child you take 9 months off work with full pay so that your offspring can get a good introduction to life. When you're out of a job the state will take care of you indefinitely.

Despite of this denmark has a consistently strong economy, is one of the richest countries in the world, and has for many years been in the top three of both the happiest country and the least corrupt country in the world.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by eli_gottlieb on Sunday June 24, 2012 @10:20PM (#4154830)

When you're out of a job the state will take care of you indefinitely.

Is that the Flexicurity system? How does that work?

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by MaysonL on Saturday June 23, 2012 @08:36PM (#4152221)

Of course less socialism also leads to perverse incentives at times, like avoiding starting a company because of fear of not being able to get health insurance.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by potatolicious on Saturday June 23, 2012 @09:05AM (#4150745)

I've noticed that socialism is definitely a pejorative term in the US - which dismays me as a socialist-leaning Canadian. It's like economic Godwin - call someone a socialist and effective discourse just kind of grinds to a halt.

It's the modern "communism", without invoking the spirit of McCarthy.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by gnaritas on Saturday June 23, 2012 @10:18AM (#4150900)

It's a pejorative among conservatives, not among liberals.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by excuse-me on Saturday June 23, 2012 @11:27AM (#4151015)

Ironically that liberal is also pejorative in the USA

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by gnaritas on Saturday June 23, 2012 @03:30PM (#4151581)

Also only among conservatives; don't paint everyone with that brush. They are only half the USA.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by Atropos on Saturday June 23, 2012 @08:58AM (#4150733)

I only used the word "socialism" because the other commenter used it - in the original meaning of the word it doesn't exist anywhere in Europe. What I meant is simply bad regulation. You are correct that some of the nordish countries have a more ,,left'' reputation and have things like high taxes, alot of redistribution etc... But if you look at the "Heritage Ranking of Economic Freedom" (http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking), you see: - Denmark (Rank 11), Finland (17), Sweden (21) - Spain(36), Portugal(68), Italy(92), Greece(119)

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by soc88 on Saturday June 23, 2012 @09:18AM (#4150770)

This also amazes me too. The US has neither a working, efficient health care nor education system, but blames others for "socialism"?

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by KaoruAoiShiho on Saturday June 23, 2012 @11:10AM (#4150984)

Not sure about the health care system, but the non-socialist portion of the US education system is the best in the world, and only the socialist portion of it is terrible. I find those to be reasonable grounds to dislike socialism.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by eli_gottlieb on Sunday June 24, 2012 @10:22PM (#4154833)

Major public universities in the United States, known world-over for their excellence:

* University of California, Berkeley

* University of Washington, Seattle

* University of Massachusetts, Amherst

* Texas A&M

* University of Wisconsin, Madison

Shall I go on?

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by kbolino on Monday June 25, 2012 @10:23AM (#4156613)

To call any of those "socialist", when the paid-by-the-student cost has skyrocketed and the paid-by-the-government cost has plummeted, is a bit of a stretch.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by eli_gottlieb on Monday June 25, 2012 @12:57PM (#4157366)

Fair point, but they were world-class universities when the government subsidized them, too. There's no inverse correlation between government support of a university and academic quality, being my point.

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Re:Where has all the money in the world gone? by kbolino on Monday June 25, 2012 @05:12PM (#4158774)

Agreed, and I think KaoruAoiShiho's original "socialist" comment was about K-12 anyway.

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