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Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by mikojan on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @07:26PM (#41440333)
The collective farm that produced SpaceX is the United States Government. It carried out all the research and development necessary to create and further the North American space program. And it is existential in furthering it to this day. Without this source of contracts, research projects and income SpaceX would not be able to produce its commercial spin-off products.
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by trhway on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @07:31PM (#41440359)
You obviously never been to a collective farm.

Despite government support to the extent much larger than that for SpaceX collective farms have nothing to show for it.

Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by immibis on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @08:37PM (#41440707)
Maybe because they are farms and not rocket makers
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by trhway on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @08:49PM (#41440786)
Why they are farms and not rocket makers? Because collective.
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by nl on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @11:08PM (#41441514)
But there are very successful rocketry collectives! They just typically aren't called "farms".

Things like Friends of Amateur Rocketry have all the characteristics of a collective (including legal status) https://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/

The constraining factor is typically budget (as mentioned up-thread).

Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by immibis on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @04:27AM (#41443207)
By this logic capitalism is the thing holding back capitalist farms from being rocket makers too? Or do you only apply it when you get to use the word "collective"?
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by trhway on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @07:32AM (#41444421)
Of course it is the logic of collective. In capitalism you decide how you'd want to spend your resources, on a farm or on a rocket. In collective it is collective who decides.
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by immibis on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @08:05AM (#41444688)
Capitalist farms - why are they farms and not rocket makers? Is capitalism holding them back?
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by trhway on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @01:15PM (#41448165)
In capitalism it is your choice how to spend your resources - on the farm or on a rocket shop.
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by Viliam1234 on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @10:22AM (#41446188)
That's not an excuse. In socialist Czechoslovakia, a coop farm produced computers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JZD_Slu%C5%A1ovice#TNS_Compute...

Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by soulofmischief on Wednesday September 04, 2024 @02:37PM (#41448996)
It looks like this system was created out of necessity; there was no viable product for what they needed. Necessity is the mother of innovation after all, and we find this sorts of innovation frequently in non-collectivized entrepreneurships as well. Still, very cool!
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by WalterBright on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @08:48PM (#41440778)
If it weren't for the Wright Brothers, NASA would never have existed.
Re:Mondragon as the New City-State by mikojan on Tuesday September 03, 2024 @09:37PM (#41441043)
Maybe so but I am not arguing with that. The original claim is much weaker: No "collective" produces innovation.