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Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by ctdonath on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @09:38AM (#4105811)
Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost.

If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA Retina for $2200 and be able to swap out darn near everything; something's gonna give.

Some of us DON'T want to replace components, having learned over the years that by the time we're replacing components we'd rather replace the whole computer outright. If I need more RAM, it's best matched with a new CPU. If I need more storage, I'll need more RAM to throw around more data. When the battery dies, all those other components are gettin' obsolete anyway. I also know from experience that upgrading parts doesn't always go as planned, and time wasted upgrading can very quickly add up to the cost of a new machine outright. I'd rather have a notebook which is very thin, very light, very fast - and just replace the whole package when the time comes as I see fit.

You're welcome to a different POV, and there is a market happy to serve our different needs & desires.

However, just because we have a different POV doesn't make me a f*ing idiot.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by tincansandtwine on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:41AM (#4106177)
Specifically in reply to the battery: I work in an enterprise environment where Macs make up about 50-60% of the installed machines. Of these, about 30-40% are laptops. In my experience, Mac laptop batteries have a high rate of failure, higher than our significantly more dated PC hardware. With the most recent revs, replacing the battery has become a huge problem, since relatively new hardware (1-2 years old) is now completely shot, unless we buy a proprietary screwdriver (not a big deal, but every time they change the screw, we have to find a shop that sells it), or send it to a Mac repair shop. Now, if we upgrade to the Retina Macbook Pro, we will not have the considerably cheaper and faster option of replacing it ourselves. Unfortunately, our userbase is such that they "require" Mac hardware, so it puts IT in a rough position (having to explain why we're essentially outsourcing our work, and spending money to do so).

Now, this isn't necessarily a typical case, but if you were a regular consumer and your battery died, it isn't that hard to buy a replacement battery for the majority of laptops, though this kind of thing is becoming more prevalent. I would also like to mention that it's not just Apple (I'm looking at you, Ultrabooks), though I would say that they are the trendsetter.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by esonderegger on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:35AM (#4106455)
Why did you put quotes around "require" when describing your userbase and Mac hardware?

I'm genuinely curious - do their stated reasons for using Macs differ from how you think they are actually using their machines?

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by socialist_coder on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @12:21PM (#4106753)
You should tell your users to unplug their Macbooks more often. If you leave them plugged in 99% of the time the battery will fail a lot faster. It should drain and recharge every once a while.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by pasbesoin on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:37PM (#4107224)
At this point, this should be a configurable option in the hardware and system software. Configurable, so that if you want to use it, you can tell it when. (E.g. I work from home on Sundays, so run from battery down to n percent charge before switching on recharging. And/or alert me when I exceed the recommended runtime between charging cycles. Etc.)

I suspect, however, that the cost/benefit -- from the manufacturers' perspective -- for implementing this is not favorable.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by speleding on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @02:24PM (#4107535)
I can't find any reference anywhere that what you say is true, can you point me in the right direction please? As far as I know, the complete opposite is true for the Li-ion batteries that Apple uses, each discharge reduces its life.

Cadmium batteries have a memory effect and need to be drained every once in a while but Apple doesn't use those.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by semanticist on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @06:28PM (#4108808)
While each full charge cycle reduces the overall life, Apple recommend going through at least one charge cycle a month: http://www.apple.com/batteries/

This isn't the same as 'run it down to 0% and then fully charge', though, it could be 'run it down to 75% and then fully charge, four times'.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by Xylakant on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:47PM (#4107284)
This certainly applies to the pre-2008 models but I thought that was not true for the recent models any more.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by mark_l_watson on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:42AM (#4106181)
+1 I am with you on this. Although I have a MacBook Pro as a hot backup, I do all of my work and writing using a 13" MacBook Air. For me it is a commodity device that I have no interest in upgrading. If it breaks, a new one can be configured using a Time Machine backup while I enjoy a cup of coffee.

Life used to be different: I spent a lot of time with extensible PCs, tweaking and running Linux, etc. I have come to realize that this "fun" had an opportunity cost that I am no longer willing to pay.

I also tend to replace Apple gear more often but it is easy to find relatives or friends who appreciate being given slightly outdated gear.

I like having an easily replaceable commodity laptop in sort of the same way I like server assets sold like electricity (e.g., AWS, Heroku, AppEngine).

Ultimately time is the most precious resource. The older I get the more I care about using it wisely.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by super_mario on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @09:46AM (#4105858)
Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things up in certain other criteria.

Besides it is well understood in technical circles where Apple is headed. Make no mistake. Their goal is to kill general purpose computers, and replace them with appliances they control.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by JackC on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:02AM (#4105946)
Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle.

In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by idspispopd on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:29AM (#4106114)
You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives.

Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market.

I'm not going to go into the historical precedence of laptops having limited upgradability, but as you've noted something had to give, and soldering the RAM is by no means a new idea.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by kamaal on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:50AM (#4106212)
>>Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market.

No one here is saying we tear down our laptops and assemble them back three times a day. But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine.

Why, you might ask. Its because it works out cheaper that way. And besides, I don't throw away my car if some thing little goofs up! Why should I throw away my computer.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:02PM (#4107011)
> But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine.

Historically, Apple tends to be pretty good on support worth the price. If something like a RAM chip is toast, they'll usually replace the board, or even the whole machine.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by ebrenes on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:39PM (#4107239)
Not to mention that you do not get that level of support around the world. If you happen to be outside of the US when the RAM fails, you're shit out of luck, and looking at several weeks without a computer, even if it's under warranty.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by idspispopd on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @06:22PM (#4108790)
What's with Apple and people lying about their products/services? Clearly you must know that your statement above is not only false, but easily disproven by visiting the apple support website?

The truth is that you can take your apple product into any apple store, or apple certified reseller worldwide and get the same level of replace or repair. The only difference is timing, Apple stores keep a limited stock of parts, while resellers must order them in. The difference in repair time works out to be a few days.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by wlesieutre on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:19PM (#4107096)
If you're within warranty. If it's more than a year old (or three if you buy AppleCare), then you're on the hook for a whole new motherboard instead of a commodity stick of RAM.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by pooriaazimi on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:46PM (#4107281)
Not necessarily. A colleague of friend of mine's son (!) in Canada had a 2 year, 11 months old MacBook Pro (before unibody). He didn't have an AppleCare or anything, nor the idiot used Time Machine. He spilled wine all over his MBP and it died. He brought it to an Apple store and told them that he knows he's an idiot, and his warranty is long due, and would be happy to pay if they could just restore his hard drive for him because otherwise he would lose 3 years of data.

I'm told that the next day, he went to the store and they gave him a new, top-of-the-line 15" Unibody MacBook Pro with all his data preloaded on it. I have no way of proving that this thing actually has happened (but no reason to believe my friend was lying; as he's a respected and very honest man). This is not what always happens, but Apple is rich, and they know if they treat their customers well, they'll be customers again AND all their relatives & friends would be tempted to try Macs if they knew they could get a royal support like that. So, it's not a philanthropic thing, they do it for their business, but as they're very rich they are more generous than other manufacturers.

And just one other anecdote: another friend of mine's MacBook Pro died suddenly (no AppleCare either). Sent it to an Apple Store and they changes motherboard, RAMs and HDD free of charge.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Thursday June 14, 2012 @07:12AM (#4110768)
> This is not what always happens, but Apple is rich, and they know if they treat their customers well, they'll be customers again

Yes, pretty much. And "genius" have a lot of leeway in their handling of people coming in. They generally seem expected to try and make customers happy as much as they can, and I regularly see comments about completely unreasonable replacements allowed by apple stores.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by travisp on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @12:53PM (#4106967)
You don't have to throw away your car over a small amount of damage (unless it is the frame), but you might have to replace a thousand plus dollar component the size of a macbook.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by super_mario on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:13AM (#4106337)
I am heavily invested in Apple for the record. I use everything from Mac Pro, iMac (all versions), all of their MBPs (no airs), iPhones, iPads etc. I have invested over $30k in their hardware, so that gives me some right to criticize their direction.

All of the computers have been updated post purchase. I've put more RAM into iMacs, more RAM and SSDs into MBPs, and Mac Pros got more RAM, video cards, SSDs, HDDs etc.

In fact, one of the very first things I do is buy more RAM for my MBPs because it is more economical to do it yourself. Then if you wait 2 years, you can again double your RAM for extremely low price.

If Apple were making only this harder because of physical design constraints, you would have a point. But they are also artificially constraining the OS to make it more appliance like, and less and less UNIX like. But that's OK. Most of the users wouldn't know UNIX from eunuchs anyway.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:06PM (#4107023)
> In fact, one of the very first things I do is buy more RAM for my MBPs because it is more economical to do it yourself.

While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh.

> Then if you wait 2 years, you can again double your RAM for extremely low price.

Unless the chipset is at its physical limits, which is usually the case if you upgraded the RAM once on purchase.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by tl on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @08:26PM (#4109207)
>While that is historically true, it's not really the case for the new MBP: the 16GB RAM update costs $200, 2x8GB sticks cost ~150 at crucial. Meh.

2x8GB is ~$150. 2x4GB is ~$50[1].

Apple is charging $200 for a $100 bump in component costs. 100% markup is excessive.

[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by cmsj on Thursday June 14, 2012 @02:00AM (#4110031)
Note that while their margin on RAM is high, ther average margin across all products is, afair, over 40%

We nerds need to accept that we ate not apple's focus anymore. Just spec your machine high, pony up lots of money, enjoy the shit out of it.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Thursday June 14, 2012 @07:10AM (#4110760)
> We nerds need to accept that we ate not apple's focus anymore.

Anymore? It's never been Apple's focus

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by pi18n on Thursday June 14, 2012 @12:00AM (#4109696)
I think their arguments are wrongheaded also. But please note that this design also excludes a lot of independent repairmen. Which seems fine while you are under warranty, but if you have an old computer do you want one company to dictate the price of repairs? Or even whether they will repair it or not?
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by LaSombra on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:00PM (#4107002)
Some of us don't like to be extorted by Apple when looking for BTO options.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:20PM (#4107099)
16GB RAM upgrade on the new macbook pro: $200

2x8GB SODIMM kit at crucial, $150.

Yes, extorsion is exactly the word I'd have used in this position, indeed.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by subsection1h on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @08:17PM (#4109179)
Can someone please explain to me why Apple apologists are generally incapable of using a price comparison service that requires maybe 10 seconds to use? Their behavior never ceases to baffle me.

CORSAIR 16GB for MacBook Pro - $89.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by stouset on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:06AM (#4105970)
> Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

The elitism here is just disgusting.

I suppose all the graphic designers, photographers, programmers, and even just plain old novice users who love Apple products should just pack their bags and go back to pencils and paper. After all, if they're not doing any kind of serious computing, we really ought not cater to their needs, wants, or desires.

Computers are obviously only for people running batch processes with 95%+ CPU and I/O utilization.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by kamaal on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:43AM (#4106186)
Its not elitism.

Apple is trying very hard to convert a computer into a washing machine. Which is, giving it a specific use, like a TV or a refrigerator and tightly controlling everything behind that use.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by idspispopd on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @06:53PM (#4108897)
It's fine for you to think this, but it's beside the point and a fatigued argument that ignores the retrospective history of computing devices. Indeed I have heard the same comparisons for CPU/GPU/Sound Cards becoming soldered onto the main board. (Along with a myriad of obsolete components that users were certain they wanted to upgrade.)

There was a period back when computers were around 16Mhz that you could reliably keep a machine for many years and progressively upgrade it. The speed of progress has increased significantly since then, it's unlikely that you'll be able to find appropriate hardware for your machine by the time software has rendered it obsolete.

To break up the argument a bit:

- Soldered ram doesn't devalue the product, or present a less serious computer user. It reflects the reality that most people don't upgrade. This forum will definitely have a skew towards tinkerers, but it's not representative of the market, and there are already a slew of products to serve this consumer. - If it's broken outside of warranty there are indeed many avenues for low cost repair, even though this has a small chance of even occurring. - The cost of maxing out the ram is on par with market pricing. - Giving the user upgrade choices at purchase time is a better route than trying to hunt down parts later on. All computers become obsolete, minor spec upgrades won't stop this.

This is what incremental change looks like, ram being a quick solution for computing woes has reached the point of irrelevancy and 16GB of ram is certainly appropriate for the gamut of uses of such a device. Most speed gains experienced on this hardware will be the result of the SSD.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by tsieling on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:13AM (#4106335)
Yeah a washing machine that edits videos, keeps all my stuff together and makes it easy to use. Why don't we just accept that the general purpose, let the user figure it out approach is dead in the water. People are voting with their dollars and they're saying they've had enough of tech that feels like tech. The paradigm changed, we're no longer kings when mom's printer driver is out of date, and it's time to grow up and accept it.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by kamaal on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:49AM (#4106547)
Washing machine is general enough for its tasks too. A washing machine can wash nearly all kind of clothes. A refrigerator can preserve anything that needs freezing. The defining characteristics of those machines is companies telling me not to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials. And I don't want to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials.

But no way in the world would I like to throwaway a washing machine if something small went wrong inside it. That's where the tinkering part comes to play. I don't mind the knobs and dials, but claiming that not having user serviceable parts is not a requisite of usability gets really very difficult to believe in.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by mironathetin on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:47AM (#4106202)
"Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing."

Yeah,... Astro-Physicist here. 90% of my colleagues use Macs and we write most of the software that controls satellites and earth bound observatories on Macs.

Just an old science, entertainment, with no real or useable results :o).

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by super_mario on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:20AM (#4106379)
Mathematician and software developer here (and the guy you are responding to) and ALL my personal computers are Macs too. I criticize Apple's direction because I sincerely do not think it is good for the future of general purpose computing. The software you write for your scientific computing might become "illegal" if Apple gets it their way, and you will first have to pay Apple a cut before you can run it, or it may become plain impossible to program your computer at all. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. If computers become locked down appliances you won't be able to or expected to run custom code on them either.

How many people expect to compile and run stuff on their iPad? None, but it's a perfectly capable machine, more powerful than PCs of the 90s.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by mironathetin on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:33AM (#4106445)
I agree with you completely. I don't like the direction of Apples development either. But then, I know how much time a linux notebook consumes. I still did not manage to play back my rsync'ed backup in a way that the machine boots.

That (and related stuff) is what I mean when I write ( a bit further down) that there is no real operating system for a Thinkpad. Pity.

In a way, apple goes the same way that car manufacturers have gone already. Try to get a BMW repaired in a non-BMW workshop. Impossible, because you need BMW proprietary tools and Software. So BMW dictates the prices and they dictate, what parts have to be replaced for a certain error.

My wife and I use subway and bicycles where ever we can, since Mercedes, Porsche, Opel, Ford all try to do the same.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by sokoloff on Thursday June 14, 2012 @04:55AM (#4110405)
I know first-hand that Mercedes are quite user-serviceable, as I do most all of the service (ex-tire replacement, ex-exhaust) on all our cars.

Factory basic service information is not only easily available, it's free (at least in the US: they make you provide a US CC every 365 days for online access, so it might be MB-USA funding it, but the card is not charged). Parts are readily available aftermarket, from OE and non-OE suppliers. There's also several well-respected third party shops within a few miles of here.

I don't drive a BMW, but I know of two excellent (but not cheap) third party shops nearby.

Yes, some systems are computer-augmented for service, and require a beyond-OBD2 level of software, but that software is available (and a couple thousand dollars, a lot for an individual, but nothing compared to the rest of the tools a shop has to have).

I am quite happy with the supportability MB provides, and probably wouldn't drive one if your statement above matched my experience.

Side note: it's a pleasure to work on MB: very few "one time" fasteners (like those plastic Christmas tree push things, or ridiculously fragile/undersized plastic latches). Thing that you need to take apart are designed to be taken apart and put back together many times without damage or leaving ill-fitting parts afterward. You really notice the difference when servicing someone else's other brand, price-optimized car.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by mironathetin on Thursday June 14, 2012 @06:35AM (#4110668)
Good for you that you can do it yourself. We don't have the time to do that and we rely on good workshops. Here in germany non-contract workshops cannot get access to the necessary tools and software. They could hack it, but thats against the law! Most mechanics also lack the abilities to handle analysis software.

As a bottom line, workshops that can service cars with new production date vanish.

What you say is indeed the solution that came into my mind: buy a cool oldtimer (I especially like the Porsche 911 from the late 70s/early 80s) and buy a new house with a large garage. Tools are available already.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by doetoe on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:39AM (#4106472)
That is beside the point. That you're using a Mac doesn't automatically make you an Apple target customer.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by BitMastro on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:19AM (#4106367)
I'm curious: what language do you working with? Are you using as IDE (if you are using one)?
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by mironathetin on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:30AM (#4106424)
java, jython (90% of the time), C, C++, python, Netbeans, some use Eclipse (cough), emacs, bbedit, vim
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by BitMastro on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @12:00PM (#4106628)
Thanks!
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by scott_s on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:18AM (#4106030)
You're right, the machine in front of me does not do any "serious computing." It's just a device which lets me communicate with the people I work with, look up things on the internet, and enable me to work on a ~500 core cluster.

The computer in front of me is basically just an appliance now. That has no bearing on the actual work I do.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by ctdonath on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @09:49AM (#4105875)
Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

Um, you missed the last line of the post you replied to.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by bbwharris on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:33AM (#4106134)
Serious computing? Like gaming?

Last I checked typing text files and compiling them is more serious than most users and doesn't require massive clusters to accomplish.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by super_mario on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:26AM (#4106408)
If Apple gets their way, typing text and compiling it to code and running it on your appliance will become illegal. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. There will simply be no expectation of running custom code on a "computer" once it is turned into an appliance.

Look at iPad. It's more powerful than PCs of the 90s yet no one even expects to run their custom code on it. This is where Macs and OS X are headed to.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by omgsean on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @02:42PM (#4107671)
It won't even matter by then because the Illuminati will have already started the New World Order and we'll all be in secret FEMA camps.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by whateverer on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @08:42PM (#4109248)
"Most users never program their computers themselves. Anyone can plainly see the historical trend from the late 80s onward that the average user has no interest in the internals of their computers or in investing time in automation which experts can do for them.

I support Apple 100% in moving forward and removing the option of running, or producing, unreliable homebrewed code without authorization.

Actual programming experts can get a Mac Pro with and their programming license from Apple, or just run Linux on a PC."

Yes, I certainly trust that we won't be seeing posts like the above in the eventuality that Apple puts further restrictions on their (customer's) computers.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by omgsean on Thursday June 14, 2012 @09:42AM (#4111277)
I don't think Apple would be so quick to throw away the hacker market like that. Do you think they don't know that their computers are incredibly popular for sysadmins, web developers, and other developers who aren't necessarily writing Cocoa apps?

If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat. AND I'll switch to Linux.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by bbwharris on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @12:32PM (#4106827)
Seriously doubt it, but if that happens most of us will go back to Linux.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by Anderkent on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @12:46PM (#4106915)
Not if Apple starts selling macs with secure boot permanently enabled. Which I wouldn't be very surprised about.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by sausagefeet on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @10:07AM (#4105972)
Why would I run any serious computation on a glorified iPad? I have a MacBook Air and it's great for its purpose: a very light, very portable, thin terminal. Running anything that is seriously bounded by CPU or I/O would be silly.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:02AM (#4106266)
You're not an idiot, you just like Apple and have enough money not to care about getting ripped off.

This design decision has nothing to do with reducing "volume, weight and cost". It has everything to do with hosing the customer on memory, as that has been a very lucrative business on the iPad.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by tsieling on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:11AM (#4106317)
Ripped off is subjective. I want someone else to take care of that stuff for me, so that makes Apple's direction a good one for me. I don't like tinkering with my computer, I don't like fucking around with it to make it do what I need. I do what I do with it and it works, it works better than any of the heap of garbage PCs that I sunk countless hours into before I switched. That's why I use it, and I'm neither an idiot nor ripped off. I get what I expect and more and I'm happy to give them my money for it. Levelling slurs at people who happen to be in their market makes you look like, well, you know.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:19AM (#4106370)
I didn't level a slur at you, and as I said, I don't think that you're an idiot. Just wealthy.

Before, you had the ability to go to the Apple store or website and have them "take care of" your memory woes at point of purchase. They charge like $500 for an $100 memory stick.

Most people call paying 5x more for a commodity product "a ripoff".

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by masklinn on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @01:11PM (#4107050)
> They charge like $500 for an $100 memory stick.

That's definitely the case historically, but you may want to look at this one case right there: 16GB RAM upgrade on the new MBP is $200. 2x8GB SODIMM at crucial is $150.

I'm not exactly going to shit my pants over a minor $50 (and 30% of the base part) markup when buying a $2200 kit.

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by subsection1h on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @08:25PM (#4109203)

    16GB RAM upgrade on the new MBP is $200.
    2x8GB SODIMM at crucial is $150.
Once again, can someone please explain to me why Apple apologists are generally incapable of using a price comparison service that requires maybe 10 seconds to use? Their behavior never ceases to baffle me.

CORSAIR 16GB for MacBook Pro - $89.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233...

Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by Symmetry on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:20AM (#4106374)
You're mostly right here, but making things specialized to the extent that Apple is doing here often makes things more expensive. If you go the specialized route instead of using commodity hardware there's going to be a big upfront price. Its possible that reduced packaging could make up for that in some cases, but I'm skeptical. There are also some changes that Apple makes simply to prevent user serviceability, like special Apple only screws, that don't help with weight and only serve to increase the price.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by wwweston on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @11:30AM (#4106421)
Having a different POV may not make you an idiot, but saying "If I need more RAM, it's best matched with a new CPU" and "If I need more storage, I'll need more RAM to throw around more data" makes you sound like one. Both statements have pretty large and likely counterexample spaces.
Re:New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard ... by rsanchez1 on Wednesday June 13, 2012 @02:23PM (#4107526)
"Go buy a computer for which that is a feature"

Great, I'll go buy ANY computer that isn't made by Apple.