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Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:19PM (#40963976)
Jeff Bezos famously left the state just before the Washington's new cap gains tax targeted at him was set to go into effect.

I know other people with 8 figure fortunes who left, too.

I didn't know it was controversial that spending a lot of money in a local economy makes it more prosperous, and when a big spender leaves, the local economy goes down.

The Rust Belt is an example of the latter.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by arrosenberg on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:53PM (#40964148)
This isn't a feudal country and a single magnate leaving will barely affect the economy. What affected the Rust Belt, and is causing problems nationally, is that ultrawealthy people like Jeff Bezos are manipulating the government to change the laws in ways that allow him more concentration of wealth and power at the expense of the middle class. The lack of a middle class is what causes an economy to go down, and that is why the Rust Belt is suffering economically. People like Bezos, the Waltons, the Kochs are causing harm to the economy, they're not propping it up in any sense.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:14PM (#40964272)
The Rust Belt long predated Amazon.

How is Bezos extracting money from the middle class?

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by arrosenberg on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:34PM (#40964363)
I refuse to believe the Rust Belt existed before 1995. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:54PM (#40964453)
> The Rust Belt experienced industrial decline starting in the 1950s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by arrosenberg on Sunday July 14, 2024 @10:22PM (#40964803)
And? Amazon is still an avatar for the neoliberalism that killed the Rust Belt. They didn't start the fire, they just pour gas on it every day.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by danaris on Sunday July 14, 2024 @10:50PM (#40964908)
This is called "moving the goalposts", and however good your underlying point about Amazon's perfidy might be, it does nothing but make you look like you're wrong and you know it.

You were wrong about the Rust Belt, and it's OK to admit that and move on.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by arrosenberg on Sunday July 14, 2024 @11:15PM (#40964995)
Seems more likely you don’t process sarcasm well.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by danaris on Monday July 15, 2024 @09:44AM (#40967845)
"Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target, lest it be mistaken for, and contribute to, that which it intends to criticize."

To put it another way: From Poe's Law[0], we know that no matter how outlandish a position you take sarcastically in a forum like this, there's nearly guaranteed to be people who will be taking such a position in full sincerity. If you don't clearly indicate in some way that you're being sarcastic, you're going to be mistaken for the real asshole, because your tone of voice does not come across in plain text.

Next time, just put a /s and save everyone the trouble, hmm?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by arrosenberg on Monday July 15, 2024 @12:54PM (#40969513)
No, I don't think I will. If you missed it, that's a great sieve for knowing what kind of person I am responding to. If you can't pick up on a joke, it's not going to be a fun conversation anyways.

> If you don't clearly indicate in some way that you're being sarcastic, you're going to be mistaken for the real asshole, because your tone of voice does not come across in plain text.

That's the sign of goooood sarcasm. Most people don't take internet forums as seriously as you seem to.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by danaris on Sunday July 14, 2024 @10:49PM (#40964904)
....You might want to look it up before making such extraordinary claims of your own.

It's called the "Rust Belt" because it's where we had booming local manufacturing (the iron) in the postwar years that gradually declined over the course of the Cold War (turning to rust).

Hell, by 1995, some parts of the Rust Belt were already starting to recover, though others remain hollowed out to this day.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by shakow on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:30PM (#40964029)
> spending a lot of money in a local economy makes it more prosperous

Do these people really spend a lot of money in the local economy? Realistically, even assuming they pay a couple dozen people $100k/year for service and indulge daily in 3 $500 meals, what will be the actual influence on the local economy?

> The Rust Belt is an example of the latter.

The Rust Belt is an example of what happens when the state allows companies to leave, build their gadgets for a tenth of the price across the Pacific, then sell them back home without serious tariffs; not an example of what happens when Mr. Studebaker or Mrs. Bethlehem Steel leave for Florida.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @07:51PM (#40964135)
Zillionaire Paul Allen was famous for spending billions in the local economy. He transformed Seattle. He's passed away, and his projects are being sold off and closed down.

> the state allows companies to leave

If you have to build a wall around your state to keep people from fleeing, you have failed.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by Avicebron on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:11PM (#40964257)
No, if you are moving a high levels of capital and can exploit populations that haven't moved as fast as you (Mexico <- causal <- rust belt, etc) you are essentially playing a shell game but have fast hands because you can move more efficiently across larger sections of the globe and local demographics than someone from that population. It's predatory, and ultimately leads to "deserts" where the parasite has booked it to a location where the resource pipeline is more efficient thus more profits can be siphoned without a drop in metrics.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Monday July 15, 2024 @11:55AM (#40968997)
Building factories in Mexico is not exploitation - it raises the standard of living of the people who decide that working at those factories is better than what they had otherwise.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by shakow on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:13PM (#40964267)
> If you have to build a wall around your state to keep people from fleeing

It's not really about building a wall around your country to keep people from fleeing, but to prevent gadgets sold by people leveraging arbitrage in an unfair way to get in – or, as we call them for now millenia, tariffs.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:32PM (#40964356)
Arbitrage is a major reason why free market companies prosper. It's taking advantage of the Law of Comparative Advantage.

For example, consider Bob and Fred. Bob is good at hunting, but stinks at growing blueberries. Fred grows luscious blueberries, but he's likely to blow his own foot off when hunting.

Bob brings home twice the meat he needs, and Fred grows twice the blueberries he needs, and they trade.

They are both better off than if Bob and Fred each only fended for themselves.

BTW, back in the 80s, my (British) partner at Zortech noticed that boxed software in Britain sold for twice as much as the same box in the US. So he would order large quantities of boxes from the US, mark them up, and sell them locally at a nice profit.

Eventually, other businessmen caught on and this no longer worked.

That's arbitrage in action. It benefits consumers.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by shakow on Monday July 15, 2024 @02:48AM (#40965761)
> It benefits consumers.

On the short term and reasonable spatial scale; sure. What's currently happening in the West is that common people are discovering that on the long term and at world scale, it does not really benefits them for a myriad of reasons, among which unevenly applied norms, difference in regimes, different social models, etc.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Monday July 15, 2024 @11:55AM (#40969006)
The world has never been more prosperous on a global scale.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by skybrian on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:26PM (#40964330)
And yet, Microsoft and Amazon are still there. Isn’t that what matters?

I see people moving to other states as a form of load balancing.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Sunday July 14, 2024 @08:37PM (#40964383)
People living and spending their money in the same place is irrelevant to the local economy?

The taxes they pay into the local economy have produced obvious civic booms in places like Redmond and Bellevue.

BTW, the Ferrari dealer moved to be close by the Microsoft campus.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by skybrian on Sunday July 14, 2024 @09:14PM (#40964545)
I think it’s relevant, but also, there are a lot of people coming and going. If housing prices are high and traffic is bad, pointing at some rich people leaving seems sort like saying “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.”
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by WalterBright on Monday July 15, 2024 @01:40AM (#40965539)
Rich people leaving isn't going to reduce the traffic significantly, but it will reduce economy significantly.