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A comment on Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentium processor. Parent comment

Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by morphle on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:02PM (#40899656)
no, the mask must be made within the tight rules of the proprietary (and very secret) PDK of the TSMC Fab for that node. Just getting it certified that it fits the rules will cost millions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_design_kit

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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by shrubble on Sunday July 07, 2024 @04:15PM (#40900136)
How were the Parallax Propeller guys able to do it? They have a Propeller2 that is in either 40nm or 28nm, IIRC.
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by RF_Savage on Monday July 08, 2024 @01:51AM (#40902903)
Because those are now trailing edge nodes, so cheaper and easier entry for everybody.
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by amelius on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:04PM (#40899682)
Interesting. What is the granularity? Is it logic gates, or transistors?
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by morphle on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:10PM (#40899719)
the granularity is at all levels: standard cells (=gates), transistor shapes, metal layer shapes down to groups of atoms (for quantum dots).
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by quotemstr on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:03PM (#40899675)
Are all fabs like this?
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by hansihe on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:11PM (#40899726)
It's probably more of a node thing than a fab thing. You would have a much easier time getting the fab to do random stuff for you on a legacy node compared to a leading edge node.

Leading edge nodes are basically black magic and are right on the edge of working vs producing broken chips.

You as a customer would never want to be in a position where you are solely responsible for yields.

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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by morphle on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:13PM (#40899730)
There are only a few Fabs with nodes smaller than 28nm. Yes, all fabs are like that, with exception of a few experimental tiny labs at research institutes or universities.
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Re:Standard cells: Looking at individual gates in the Pentiu... by crote on Sunday July 07, 2024 @03:16PM (#40899754)
There are open-source PDKs[0] for education, research, and R&D - but they extremely rare and decades behind state-of-the-art.

Nobody wants to give away trade secrets, so everything remains proprietary and behind an NDA until it has become completely obsolete.

[0]: https://www.skywatertechnology.com/sky130-open-source-pdk/

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