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Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by mewpmewp2 on Saturday June 29, 2024 @06:25PM (#40833697)
What exactly is wrong with the statement he has made?
Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by jprete on Saturday June 29, 2024 @06:41PM (#40833768)
The Verge quotes: "I think that with respect to content that’s already on the open web, the social contract of that content since the ‘90s has been that it is fair use. Anyone can copy it, recreate with it, reproduce with it. That has been 'freeware,' if you like, that’s been the understanding."

This statement is quite wrong. People have complained about content farms and plagiarists ripping off their content for ages. The only kinds of Web content I can think of where his statement could apply are open source software (for the more permissive licenses) and Stack Overflow posts. Almost everything else was posted with the intent of copyright.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by Forge36 on Saturday June 29, 2024 @07:20PM (#40833976)
While the intent of copyright is unknown, when it's unstated it can be changed later. The legal solution to this is licenses.

A common curiosity to unstated intent is attribution. This is missing (and not currently possible) with many AI models today.

The Internet is not detached from the rest of the world. Something with a license can appear there (with or without the holders knowledge)

Note: Not intending to contradict you but elaborate on that last point as assuming intent is dangerous.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by yencabulator on Sunday June 30, 2024 @02:20PM (#40838909)
Open source software is posted with the intent of copyright. Copyright is what enforces the license, which is what makes it open source. For BSD/Apache2 etc the license still requires attribution.
Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by trueismywork on Saturday June 29, 2024 @06:42PM (#40833772)
Content on web eithout any copyright notice is by default "all rights reserved" content. So you cannot use it to produce new content, unless you can prove that the old content was never reproduced ever along all the invocation of the LLM
Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by seanmcdirmid on Saturday June 29, 2024 @06:55PM (#40833850)
You can totally study it and learn from a bunch of content on the web and then create a new work having looked at other works before. My writing is influenced by lots of copyrighted work I’ve read already, there is no mental blockade going on when I write something. The only question is what does it mean when a machine does that instead?

The old content can’t be reproduced by an LLM unless the content is provided as part of its prompt. At least, that’s what the AI companies claim and will have to show in court.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by pdonis on Saturday June 29, 2024 @07:36PM (#40834067)
> You can totally study it and learn from a bunch of content on the web and then create a new work having looked at other works before.

But you don't do that by computing relative word frequencies in the content and then running an algorithm to generate further words with the same relative frequencies. When human efforts come too close to that it is called plagiarism. You don't get words from what you read and study, you get ideas, and ideas can't be copyrighted. You just have to express the ideas in your own words.

> what does it mean when a machine does that instead?

The machine is doing exactly the thing that, when human efforts come too close to doing it, is called plagiarism. The machine isn't operating with ideas; it doesn't even have a concept of "ideas". So it is not doing what you are doing--it is not taking ideas and expressing them in its own words. It's literally just shuffling the words.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by seanmcdirmid on Saturday June 29, 2024 @09:46PM (#40834571)
> But you don't do that by computing relative word frequencies in the content a

That's a lot of assumptions about human level intelligence. We do know that the more you read, the better you can write, and a lot of our text is "inspired" by words and styles that we read in the past. You claim this isn't an algorithm, I don't think we really know how human intelligence works.

> You don't get words from what you read and study, you get ideas, and ideas can't be copyrighted.

That's completely oblivious to how humans actually read and study, of course you get words, if you are lucky you might also get ideas, but at least you get words (assuming ideas aren't words to begin with).

The government is eventually going to have to make a decision on this one way or the other, or we will just cede the whole of advancement to China (who won't bother with this debate and just do what works the best).

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by pdonis on Saturday June 29, 2024 @10:40PM (#40834779)
> That's a lot of assumptions about human level intelligence.

I disagree, but I doubt we're going to get anywhere by discussing it. It seems to me that you are either seriously undervaluing human intelligence, or seriously overvaluing LLMs.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday June 30, 2024 @02:25AM (#40835465)
I just know that we don’t actually know. We assume we are special, but we could just be stringing words together based on what we experienced and learned with what we remember for prompting.
Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by pdonis on Sunday June 30, 2024 @02:50PM (#40839172)
There's a lot we don't know about the details of how our brains work, but we do know that our brains are connected to the external world in a huge number of ways that LLMs are not. The only connections to the external world that LLMs have are their training data and the prompts they are given. That is an incredibly paltry level of connection compared with the connections that our brains have. Those connections make a huge difference.

As AI technology evolves, I would expect that the connections AIs have with the external world will become much more extensive, and that will make a huge difference as well. But current LLMs simply don't have that, and it shows.

Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by dse1982 on Sunday June 30, 2024 @03:14AM (#40835627)
It is absurd to act as if machines would do the same as human brains if you don’t even know what human brains do.
Re:Microsofts AI boss thinks its perfectly OK to steal conte... by elicksaur on Saturday June 29, 2024 @06:37PM (#40833749)
The article does a pretty good job outlining the actual legal rights of published content and how his statement is not supported by laws and precedent.