News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by lr4444lr on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:00PM (#40761708)
3. Greece's unemployment rate is almost 11%.

What a bizarre situation.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by PaulDavisThe1st on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:04PM (#40761730)
One wonders if increasing the compensation offered for these jobs might result in less vacancies. I mean, I've heard theories (only theories, mind you) that this could have some effect. Seems unlikely, but maybe worth a try?
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by SeanAnderson on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:10PM (#40761776)
I don't know a lot about Greek economy. It seems like it could be a scenario where consumers can't afford higher prices. If prices goes up then consumers bail, companies go out of business, unemployment goes down but total available jobs goes down, too. Instead, everyone's grinding their way to the bottom which isn't great, either.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by Arnt on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:12PM (#40762255)
The Greek economy is highly seasonal. There's tourist season and off season.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:39PM (#40762001)
There are no vacancies. On the contrary, there's a whole slew of 20-somethings willing to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for six months for 1k/mo so they have some money during the winter.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by PaulDavisThe1st on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:06PM (#40762220)
From TFA:

> However, at least the pay is good on Mykonos, which cannot be said for some of the less well-known Greek holiday destinations.

> All of this is why hotel-owners in regions like the popular Chalkidiki peninsula in northern Greece are having trouble finding enough workers. As a result, some restaurants and hotels in Greece will open late this summer.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:11PM (#40762248)
Well, at least TFA is right about the horrid conditions. I don't know how right it is about the shortage, I'll tell you tomorrow when I'm there. The prices are already exorbitant, though, so I'd be surprised if the business owners couldn't afford to pay workers a bit more to entice them to come.

If there's a worker shortage, why will hotels open later? Sounds to me like an excuse to cover up a less-busy-than-expected opening season.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by PaulDavisThe1st on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:07PM (#40762223)
From the opening text of TFA:

> From the construction industry to the tourism sector, Greek employers cannot find the staff they need.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by bluepuma77 on Sunday June 23, 2024 @02:20AM (#40765169)
Yes, but what’s the reason behind this?

If you have bad working conditions (overtime, weekends) and pay very low salary, who wants those jobs?

Greece is in EU, so the workers can just move to better paying places (Germany, France, Nordics).

Maybe they rather need to tackle their many times mentioned corruption problems, so the value created can be distributed also among the workers.

So that work becomes worthwhile again.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by jq-r on Sunday June 23, 2024 @11:04AM (#40767981)
Exactly the same story over here in Croatia. It's a narrative from political elites blaming "lazy and demanding" workers.

The real truth is that working conditions, salaries and culture suck, and yes, workers are emigrating to other EU countries like never before in history of the country/region.

Politicians are crying their eyes out how people don't want to work so they're "forced" to let immigration being rampant. All the while being corrupted like there is no tomorrow (and probably there isn't).

This is happening everywhere and there are slight differences depending if those are jobs in tourism or not.

In tourism terrible cafe owners are complaining that waiters cost too much (they don't), hotel owners are paying minimum level wages to immigrants (why paying full salary to a local?), local public transit company is complaining that that cannot find drivers (so: immigration). All of this is complete BS. The standard of living is going down the drain, the difference between a tourist and local's buying power is larger and larger, politicians are doing everything in their powers to enrich themselves fuck all, same with judiciary, and public health services works only on paper. We're completely screwed.

And related, this reminds me about 20 years ago I was constantly hearing and reading from the media how domestic IT is sorely missing workers of any kind. Which was bs, they then wanted almost minimum wage experienced workers, just like they still want now.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by fransje26 on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:40PM (#40762008)
Why pay them more, if you can make them work two extra hours per day, for free.. :-/
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by PartiallyTyped on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:10PM (#40761773)
Something you should consider is that plenty of people are simply not registered and take money under the table because it is beneficial to them.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by whazor on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:18PM (#40761840)
Greece biggest economy is tourism, so it is seasonal. They need most workers in the summer.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by cyberax on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:18PM (#40761843)
It's a whole bunch of toxic factors working synergistically.

The Greek economy is dominated by low-wage tourist-oriented businesses, a whopping 20-30% of employed people are directly involved in them.

And they have to compete against Turkey, Egypt, and other low-income countries. These businesses simply cannot pay high salaries, there's no profit margin for it. So people don't want to work in these miserable conditions, and business owners have problems attracting labor.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:37PM (#40761980)
Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts. Beaches keep getting gobbled up by multimillion-euro hotel complexes (unconstitutionally) so they can make money hand over fist by taking advantage of public property (with the appropriate kickbacks to the local politicians), while the local economy benefits minimally from whatever minimum-wage jobs are created in the process.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by cyberax on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:38PM (#40762431)
> Those low-wage tourist-oriented businesses are making crazy high margins and paying workers peanuts.

They are really not.

I looked into this in 2019, when I was making a backup plan to get an investor visa in the EU. You can buy a hotel business in Greece for basically peanuts, but it is almost impossible to make _any_ profit without resorting to shady tactics.

That's also why large chains can move in so easily. They can spread a lot of expenses and risks across multiple properties.

It's not a healthy situation to be in.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Saturday June 22, 2024 @05:42PM (#40762459)
I'll trust your analysis, but how do you explain the extremely high prices nowadays? I went to a beach yesterday, and they wanted 75 EUR to rent an umbrella and two beds for a few hours. That's three days' wages for a Greek, how is this a low-margin business? Opex is minimal (basically bar staff), Capex is minimal (a bunch of beds and umbrellas), where's all the money going?

Maybe it's only hotels that are low-margin, with Airbnb being a competitor, but otherwise everything is too expensive for any Greek to afford to go on vacation in our own country any more. The money must be going somewhere.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by cyberax on Saturday June 22, 2024 @07:41PM (#40763272)
The answer is very simple: corruption.

Umbrella business owners are likely paying off the local government and/or organized crime to keep competitors off.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by vidanay on Saturday June 22, 2024 @06:43PM (#40762887)
> The money must be going somewhere.

> with the appropriate kickbacks to the local politicians

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by nexxer on Wednesday July 03, 2024 @06:20AM (#40864554)
It's down to supply and demand. You get a license from local govenrment, buy some nice furniture, hire some young people, and set up shop offering a nice looking product of beach access with food, drinks, service at your umbrella, for 75 euro. More if you want front row beach access. You do leave the required free space for the public to put down their own umbrella (or not!). If you're the only shop on that particular beach, and it's a nice beach, people will come, and to enough of them your product will look "sexier" than the public beach area. By paying for it, they solve a need of theirs (beach fun) and can also brag about paying for it on social media.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by jowdones on Thursday July 04, 2024 @01:46AM (#40872602)
I don't know who you are but chances are they saw you as a guillible sucker. That price is completely unrepresentative for Greece. Two beds and an umbrella for a day range in the 5-10 euro a day and I'm vacationing in Greece since 15 years now so I know. If you know where to look you can find "free" beds and umbrella provided you consume something from the beach bar, starting with 2 euro for a coffee. I'd get like a 5 euro frappe and give 2 euro off record to the lady who hands the tickets and that's it. For a few hours it's enough given that I don't lay the whole day in one place.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Thursday July 04, 2024 @04:38AM (#40873357)
Nope, that's just how much beds in Paros cost.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by robocat on Saturday June 22, 2024 @06:45PM (#40762903)
https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/tourism-satel...

Shows profitability for tourism around 20% in New Zealand - although that's on the back of some pretty crappy service jobs.

Elsewhere in the report it implies that the government makes more than 20% (15% sales tax GST, plus other taxes).

I'm not a huge fan of tourism as a sector because it's so cyclical and paid service to tourists is often unpleasant. Although tourism is likely better than some other export earners... But tourism is a more significant earner for Greece: ouch.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by cool_dude85 on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:33PM (#40761959)
Is it still common to expect workers to pay government-mandated bonuses back to their bosses in cash? I know this was a common practice some years ago.
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by stavros on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:37PM (#40761984)
I wouldn't say "common to expect", I'd say "bosses blackmail workers into it".
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by dotcoma on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:21PM (#40761862)
...and so they make it mandatory to work 6 days a week ??
Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by Arnt on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:56PM (#40762144)
Greece has a lot of businesses with seven-day working weeks. Hotels, that kind of thing. This rule change says, AIUI, that you can't work in that kind of job and insist on a five day working week.

The money of working hours per week is unchanged.

Re:Greece introduces the six day work week by MattGaiser on Saturday June 22, 2024 @04:21PM (#40761857)
Eh, I suspect it is way lower and much of it is just welfare/tax fraud.

When I was there, they gave huge cash discounts for everything.