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Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @05:43PM (#40743740)
Keeping religions in check as such is incompatible with liberalism. Secular societies need to be maintained, but antagonizing religious people with phrases like that is not how.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by stef25 on Thursday June 20, 2024 @05:49PM (#40743793)
Make sure to use right words so they don't have a meltdown, like toddlers.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:11PM (#40743992)
It is important for government actions to be communicated clearly
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by surfingdino on Thursday June 20, 2024 @05:58PM (#40743889)
On the flip side, religions are incompatible with liberalism so there's constant tension.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:09PM (#40743971)
The bedrock of liberalism is religious freedom
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by lmm on Thursday June 20, 2024 @07:27PM (#40744607)
Which organised Islam is inimical to. E.g. the penalty for apostasy is death.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by feoren on Thursday June 20, 2024 @07:26PM (#40744603)
And the bedrock of religion is forcing your beliefs upon others. Hence the tension. It's like the paradox of tolerance.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @07:38PM (#40744675)
And yet religious freedom begat liberalism, not the other way around
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by surfingdino on Friday June 21, 2024 @03:05AM (#40746956)
This doesn't mean religion ought to receive any special treatment going forward. It is a way of looking at the world, but requires belief which is in opposition to other beliefs and they all are in opposition to scientific approach to understanding ourselves and the world we live in. It is also a way of imposing and enforcing morals that cannot be questioned unless one is prepared to face grave consequences. The "priest" of are predominantly men, who are under no obligation to follow the morals they preach and indulge in the "sins" they condemn without fear of prosecution. In the end, when the veil comes off it's about power, money, and sex. So no, no special treatment of religion ought to be allowed in a secular society. And secular societies ought to have laws and mechanisms preventing them from takeover by religious groups.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by surfingdino on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:22PM (#40744089)
When a religion/ideology wants to limit personal freedom, it's a hard stop. Otherwise it's the end of liberalism.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:31PM (#40744158)
Liberalism will end when we choose to end it, in bits in pieces, each brick ironically removed in it's own name.
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by quickthrowman on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:42PM (#40744238)
Religious freedom is fine.

What bothers me is religious groups or people attempting to legislate their morality onto the whole of society by restricting personal freedoms.

If they would just follow their own morals and ethics and leave the rest of society alone, I’m perfectly fine with that.

For example, if you don’t believe in abortion, then don’t get an abortion. Leave people who want to get abortions alone, it’s their choice.

Re:Notes on Tajikistan by mkoubaa on Thursday June 20, 2024 @06:49PM (#40744302)
I couldn't agree more
Re:Notes on Tajikistan by JumpCrisscross on Friday June 21, 2024 @12:18AM (#40746098)
> the bedrock of liberalism is religious freedom

Individualism, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, private property and equality before the law are the bedrocks of liberalism [1]. Religious freedom is closer to a corollary, though hard secular liberal republics (e.g. much of recent French history) have also existed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism