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A comment on The Moral Economy of the Shire. Parent comment

Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by porknubbins on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:17PM (#40567047)
Hobbits are pretty clearly intended to represent a kind of idealized English rural life. There would be little reason to for humans or hobbits to commit violence living in small villages or other kinship based settlements where everyone would know everyone. Smeagol killed for the ring just after discovering it so Hobbits are capable of violence but their way of life does not normally call for it. Also Hobbits are in no way innocent as they do pranks and commit petty theft from the farmer.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by bryanlarsen on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:40PM (#40567286)
Most violence is committed between people that know each other rather than between strangers.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by porknubbins on Monday June 03, 2024 @07:39PM (#40569034)
That may be but there were huge increases in homicide and other crimes in the UK from 1900 to present alongside urbanization. Tolkien would have grown up being familiar with a relatively safe type of rural life. There are even many small villages today with no recorded homicides populated by humans, so I think its fair to argue those kind of places inspired the Shire.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by heavenlyblue on Tuesday June 04, 2024 @04:44AM (#40572114)
> no _recorded_ homicides
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by adamrezich on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:43PM (#40567319)
This aphorism does not take warfare into account.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by rexpop on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:09PM (#40567588)
Aphorism? There is substantial evidence supporting the statement that most violence is committed by people who know each other rather than by strangers. Here are some key findings from various sources:

- Sexual Violence: According to RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network), the majority of sexual abuse cases reported to law enforcement show that 93% of juvenile victims knew the perpetrator: 59% were acquaintances, 34% were family members, and only 7% were strangers¹.

- General Violence: Data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) indicates that less than half of all violent crimes were committed by total strangers. A significant portion of violent crimes were committed by acquaintances, friends, and relatives⁵.

- Homicide: In 2004, only 23% of murders were committed by strangers, highlighting that a larger percentage of homicides occur between individuals who know each other⁴.

These statistics demonstrate that violence is more likely to occur within known social circles rather than between strangers. It's important to note that these findings are based on reported cases and surveys, which can have limitations, but they provide a general understanding of the patterns of violence.

Source: Conversation with Copilot, 6/3/2024 (1) Perpetrators of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN. https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violenc.... (2) Violent Crime by Strangers and Nonstrangers - Bureau of Justice Statistics. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/vcsn.pdf. (3) VIOLENCE BETWEEN LOVERS, STRANGERS, AND FRIENDS. https://journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/6708/ga.... (4) Statistics In-Depth - National Sexual Violence Resource Center. https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics/statistics-depth. (5) STRANGER AND ACQUAINTANCE RAPE: Are There ... - University of Arizona. https://experts.arizona.edu/en/publications/stranger-and-acq....

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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by jvanderbot on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:19PM (#40567673)
"Aphorism" does not imply falsehood or that it is not supported by evidence. Actually, it implies a generally-known truth.

Indeed those citations exclude war.

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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by throwaway22032 on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:27PM (#40567750)
Does this account for the fact that violence and murder committed by strangers is less likely to be solved?
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by adamrezich on Monday June 03, 2024 @11:47PM (#40570487)
Did you ask the LLM about how many people die in wars and other armed conflict or did you just ask it to back up your incorrect perception of reality?
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by neaden on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:46PM (#40567359)
I mean, Medieval English villages had violence, we have court records of it. People got drunk and got in fights, threatened to burn a neighbors house down, and all sorts of other reasons why people turn to violence that Hobbits seem to do only under extreme circumstances, like being under the influence of The One Ring as you point out.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by mistrial9 on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:50PM (#40567993)
it is surprising to find times of no violence, not times of violence. The history of the British Isles is filled with raiders and tribal conflicts, armies and their Lords. Peasants lived on the lands of their masters, while traders and pirates roamed.
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Re:The Moral Economy of the Shire by shiroiushi on Wednesday June 05, 2024 @12:01AM (#40581264)
>There would be little reason to for humans or hobbits to commit violence

There's little, if any, reason for humans today to commit most of the violence they do, but they do it anyway. People don't usually commit violence for some understandable reason; they do it because they have psychological deficiencies. It's little different than a pitbull that randomly snaps and attacks a child in the family it's living with.

Clearly, based on Tolkein's depiction of them, hobbits are simply far superior to humans in this regard. And to be fair, the humans in Middle Earth don't seem to have so much of this problem as real-world humans either. Instead, I'd say the orcs sound pretty close to how many real-world humans today behave.

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