Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by anonzzzies on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @07:15AM
(#40499550)
Ah thanks, I was trying to remember Lighttable; there must be emacs plugins for CL for that I guess? As some type of more addition to the REPL functionality; having it more automated?
Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by wormius on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:11PM
(#40503693)
Oh Sorry I don't know if there's more functionality - didn't mean to imply something like LightTable exists for it, but for some reason I thought it allowed you to step back and forward in the execution to watch things (still based in text, etc... I have SBCL on my system but never really played with it beyond "hello world" so have never actually used the full power of the REPL).
AFAIK it doesn't have any sort of extension like this though. But maybe someone with more CL experience can advise! Hopefully someone has a better idea for you :)
I see the stuff in the parent post but not sure exactly what it can do vs what I envision or you may be picturing...
Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by MikeSchurman on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @08:46AM
(#40500192)
Yes, I'm a big fan of Bret Victor's work. I share his Inventing on Principle talk on a near yearly basis.
I've seen light table years ago and thought it looked really neat, but I haven't looked into it much as it wasn't directly applicable to my environments. But, probably worth a look for ideas.
On the topic of time-travel debugging, have you seen the demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72y2EC5fkcE (Tomorrow Corporation Tech Demo) Very impressive, worth a watch.
Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by homedirectory on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:29AM
(#40500556)
Thank you for sharing this demo. Amazing stuff! Inspired me to start working on improvements to the development environment of my team.
Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by jpmonettas on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:27AM
(#40500532)
Have you seen http://www.flow-storm.org/. It does time travel debugging for Clojure and has a bunch of features.
Re:GTFL – A Graphical Terminal for Common Lisp
by refset on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:24AM
(#40501635)
FlowStorm really looks like it delivers on "execution is data", per https://www.scattered-thoughts.net/writing/the-shape-of-data
I found out there's a thing called "deterministic debugging" (and the biggest known example afaict is rr: https://rr-project.org/
Apparently MS has a time-travel debugger... I pictured the AST being populated and repopulated via the steps, and the ability to diff changes over time.
Here's a wiki on various systems, though most of these seem to be typical text based "trace" options.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel_debugging (I hazard that this may be similar to some of the power of Common Lisps REPL, but could be wrong)
I found a professor at one point doing some research and he seemed to have given up without more funding. I thought I had it bookmarked, but am unable to find it right now. If I can remember (ha) I'll see if I can find it tomorrow. He had the most interesting approach that seemed closest to what I think you (and possibly I) are thinking, with propagation through the tree (I don't think I was picturing editing the graph directly per se - but that would be a cool idea).
Have you looked into LightTable or Brett Victor's work at all? http://lighttable.com/ (somewhat tangentially related, I think?)
Sorry this is so scattered I need to hit the hay LOL.