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Re:Truth, Math, and Models (Part 8 in a series on the scient... by lisper on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @02:07AM (#40497811)
> What's valuable is that the systems can be explained by their maintainers and adventurers, and that systems of explanation are federated to permit those who wants to know to participate constructively.

Yes, I agree. But I think it's also important that the ability to recognize people who actually understand the systems, to distinguish actual experts from skilled charlatans, be much more widely distributed than it currently is.

Re:Truth, Math, and Models (Part 8 in a series on the scient... by sitkack on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @06:32AM (#40499268)
Sounds like you would like to help people activate their BS detectors. You would need to show them easy to detect examples and then break it down. With each iteration getting more and more abstract in the BS cataloged.
Re:Truth, Math, and Models (Part 8 in a series on the scient... by lisper on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:36AM (#40501788)
> Sounds like you would like to help people activate their BS detectors.

Yes, exactly.

> You would need to show them easy to detect examples and then break it down.

This is the problem. There is no such thing as an easy-to-detect example for someone who does not already have a well-developed BS detector. You might want to read this:

https://flownet.com/ron/TIKN/ch1.txt

That is the introductory chapter to a previous attempt at tackling this project. It might help put some things in perspective.

Re:Truth, Math, and Models (Part 8 in a series on the scient... by sitkack on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @01:18PM (#40514428)
Yeah, the problem is hard. But it is the hardest problem and cannot be solved quickly. But through constant and deliberate exposure to the right kinds of BS, we can inoculate and strengthen those that might succumb to its effects.

Frankfurt, Harry. "On Bullshit" (1986) A Reading by AristotleWalks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH-xzi6xBgs

All the books from https://almossawi.com/

An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments https://bookofbadarguments.com/?view=flipbook

An Illustrated Book of Loaded Language https://bookofbadarguments.com/loaded-language/

https://www.amazon.com/Books-Ali-Almossawi/s?rh=n%3A283155%2...

Re:Truth, Math, and Models (Part 8 in a series on the scient... by lisper on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @01:34PM (#40514581)
Thanks for the pointers!