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Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by viraptor on Monday May 27, 2024 @05:12PM (#40494758)
A similar issue is documentation. I wish more companies defaulted to IPv6-and-also-IPv4 examples rather than other way around. Or at least make them same importance rather than ignore/hide the v6 part.
Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by jiggawatts on Monday May 27, 2024 @11:58PM (#40497184)
This is one of my tricks when evaluating products going through some sort of transition from a legacy to a modern standard:

I mentally swap the labels[1] when reading their marketing or release notes. If it says things like "No longer crashes when using IPv6", then I flip that and read it as "No longer crashes when using IPv4". That latter statement is absolutely insane and would have you abandoning that vendor as fast as you can tear up the contract. Nobody bats an eye with the first statement! Why not!?

Azure literally had this scenario, where merely enabling IPv6 on one network would crash their managed PostegreSQL service on another peered network with no recourse other than rebuilding everything form scratch without IPv6 to roll the change back!

[1] Or a generic placeholder than encompasses both. E.g.: "Fix: Enabling the internet protocol no longer causes irreversible outages with your database service."

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by simiones on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @12:18PM (#40502367)
The reality today on the Internet is that IPv4 is still "the modern IP standard," and IPv6 is the next/future standard for early adopters.
Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by jiggawatts on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @06:50PM (#40506435)
IPv6 is over a quarter of a century old at this point.
Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by tsimionescu on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @07:30PM (#40506693)
Yes, but its install base is still less than half of that of IPv4, and plenty of things that claim they support IPv6 don't do it properly. There are countries and industries where it is really entrenched, but in the majority of the networking world, IPv4 is the 100% guaranteed to work solution that all new applications and deployments first target, and IPv6 support is an after-thought at best.

Even Google, one of the champions of IPv6 adoption on the Internet, only started adding IPv6 support to GCP in the 2020s. In all public clouds, there are still numerous services that don't support it at all. And I can 100% guarantee that the next public cloud that anyone creates will start off with IPv4 support; maybe it will have IPv6 as well on day one, maybe not.

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by jiggawatts on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @09:29PM (#40507333)
> the next public cloud that anyone creates

On the contrary, essentially all of the IPv4 public ranges have now been allocated. The incumbents have bought up what they can, leaving essentially nothing for new clouds to use. It's one type of moat, and the three biggest providers are happy to keep everyone on the far side of it.

A new cloud starting in 2025 onwards would likely be based on an IPv6 native design with IPv4 as the "add on" for public endpoints only, such as load balancers and proxies.

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by tsimionescu on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @02:24AM (#40509078)
They'll still have 10.0.0.0/16 or 172.16.0.0/16 VPCs as the default, even if they can't buy a large enough chunk of IPv4s to easily give out public access through IPv4 (though they'll likely find some way to partner with some ISP that is switching massively to CGNAT and can free up most of the IPs they would normally give to their clients, or something).

IPv4 is far too ingrained to start with IPv6 only.

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by jiggawatts on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @06:42PM (#40517955)
As far back as 2015 I tried to build an all-IPv6 network for a lab environment. It very nearly worked and the few remaining issues would have been quick fixes for vendors.

We’re closer than most people assume.

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by simiones on Thursday May 30, 2024 @06:54AM (#40522254)
I'm not saying it can't work, I'm saying it's no one's first choice, even today. It's just extra risk, less usable (10.0.123.234 vs fd00:ec2::1234:5678), extra hassle (multiple IPs per NIC, extra hoops to access Github, etc).
Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by ta1243 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @04:37AM (#40498691)
I have to support ipv4. Why would I want to also support ipv6, increasing my risk and my workload.

If ipv6 had been designed form the start to allow seemless transparent access to ipv4 from an ipv6 only client that would be fine. But dual stack means twice the work and very little benefit (what services are ipv6 only, even today)

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by Plasmoid on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @11:51AM (#40501984)
> ipv6 had been designed form the start to allow seemless transparent access to ipv4 from an ipv6

It does. It's called NAT64, and it works/breaks as well as regular NAT44.

Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by bigstrat2003 on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @01:23PM (#40503096)
It's not twice the work. It's actually very little work to run dual stack.
Re:Reclaiming IPv4 Class E's 240.0.0.0/4 by WorldMaker on Tuesday May 28, 2024 @04:07PM (#40504998)
> (what services are ipv6 only, even today)

A good majority chunk of cell carriers today have gone IPv6-only for phones. They rely on NAT64 gateways (rather than CGNAT) to access IPv4-only resources. A lot of consumer internet is slowly following that lead as a better alternative to CGNAT. At least if your customers are consumers we are really close to "You might only need to serve IPv6."

(It's the "Enterprise-grade internet" that is interestingly lagging and falling behind in IPv6 adoption, and maybe doesn't see enough reason to support IPv6-only well; especially if the cost of IPv4 plateaus again, as some suggest it might. Recent AWS cost increases for IPv4 have been something of a call to action to some Corporations, but in general if you are B2B you probably need IPv4 support for a while longer as the economic incentives games play out on a long, slow horizon.)