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Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by moralestapia on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:21AM (#40452429)
prosecute: to officially accuse someone of committing an illegal act, and to bring a case against that person in a court of law

Source: Cambridge's dictionary (but any other would work as well)

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:24AM (#40452450)
> From Cambridge's (or any other) dictionary

Where did you get this? I'm seeing "to officially accuse someone of committing a crime" [1]. Criminality is esssential to the term. (EDIT: Found it. Cambridge Academic Content dictionary. It seems to be a simplified text [2]. I'm surprised they summarised the legal definition that way versus going for the colloquial one.)

You have to go back to the 18th century to find the term used to refer to initiating any legal action [3][4].

[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prosecut...

[2] https://www.cambridge.org/us/cambridgeenglish/catalog/dictio...

[3] https://verejnazaloba.cz/en/more-about-public-prosecution/hi...

[4] https://www.etymonline.com/word/prosecute

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by moralestapia on Thursday May 23, 2024 @08:12AM (#40453750)
Scroll down on that site, literally. Words have more that one meaning.

Here's what I get from OS X dictionary: "institute legal proceedings against (a person or organization)".

I can also be pedantic and insist that, even under the strict legal interpretation you are vouching for ...

>Looking/sounding like somebody else (even if its famous) is not prosecutable.

... is a correct argument.

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 23, 2024 @10:59AM (#40455558)
If this is really your hill to die on, go for it. Using “prosecute” to refer to civil litigation is not standard English in any dialect circa 1850.
Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by moralestapia on Thursday May 23, 2024 @11:20AM (#40455819)
Easy peasy, yes/no answer.

From your understanding, is looking/sounding like somebody else (even if its famous) prosecutable or not?

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 23, 2024 @11:29AM (#40455916)
> is looking/sounding like somebody else (even if its famous) prosecutable or not?

No. And if a lawmaker claimed they would like it to be, and then claimed they meant civilly litigible, they’d be labelled dishonest. (Even if it was an honest mistake.)

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by moralestapia on Thursday May 23, 2024 @12:36PM (#40456818)
>Looking/sounding like somebody else (even if its famous) is not prosecutable.

Great, then we agree. :^)

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by CRConrad on Monday May 27, 2024 @05:49AM (#40489249)
Yeah, I agree too. It's not prosecutable... But it is sue-able.

So, to return to your original point: Did you have one?

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by selimthegrim on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:40AM (#40452581)
I think it’s still common informal usage to prosecute a (moral) case. Maybe more common in the UK where you can bring a literal private prosecution.

Although I think what lawyers say these days is that it’s not colorable.

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:55AM (#40452679)
> it’s still common informal usage to prosecute a (moral) case

Sure, those are other definitions [1], e.g. to prosecute an argument. Within a legal context, however, it is black and white.

> in the UK where you can bring a literal private prosecution

For crimes. One wouldn't say one is prosecuting a defendant for e.g. libel. (Some states have private prosecution [2].)

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prosecute

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution#United_Sta...

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by Gormo on Thursday May 23, 2024 @08:14AM (#40453766)
The third definition listed on your Merriam-Webster link seems to be what's applicable here, and very clearly describes the term as applicable to any legal action.

This is consistent with my understanding of the term as a native English speaker, having experienced the term "prosecute" being used in reference to both criminal and civil cases in all forms of discourse, verbal and written, formal and informal, for decades, and only first encountering the claim that it shouldn't be used for civil cases here in this thread, today.

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 23, 2024 @11:05AM (#40455634)
> very clearly describes the term as applicable to any legal action…only first encountering the claim that it shouldn't be used for civil cases here in this thread, today

Partly why I used that citation. It’s one of the few (adult) dictionaries that acknowledges as much.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Webster 3b usage is incorrect—it’s in some dictionaries and was historically unambiguously correct. But it’s non-standard to a high degree, to the extent that Black’s Law Dictionary only contains the criminal variant. (I’ll leave it open whether publicly referring to someone who has only been sued as someone who has been prosecuted, when intended as an attack, qualifies as defamation.)

More to the point of clear communication, I’d put it in a similar category as claiming one’s usage of terrific or silly was intended in its historic sense [1]. (Though I’ll admit my use of “nice” falls in that category.)

All that said, I’m very willing to entertain there being a dialect, probably in America, where the historic use is still common.

[1] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/84307/7-words-mean-oppos...

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by Gormo on Friday May 24, 2024 @12:40AM (#40462845)
I'd regard what you're calling "historical" as being the actual standard usage in conventional speech -- again, I've never encountered the notion that "prosecute" doesn't apply to civil litigation until today, and I've been speaking English for decades, and have had many discussions involving legal cases, conversed with lawyers, signed contracts, etc. throughout my life.

The fact that you're referring to an intra-disciplinary dictionary to make the opposite argument implies that the narrower definition is jargon, and not an accurate representation of the common meaning of the term.

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by selimthegrim on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:58AM (#40452708)
I didn’t know that about the states. Thanks.
Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by amenhotep on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:55AM (#40452677)
Why would that make it more common in the UK? Being able to bring a private prosecution strengthens the distinction, a regular citizen can both sue someone for a civil offense and prosecute someone for a criminal offense. It makes it more clearly nonsense to refer to suing someone for slandering you as "prosecuting" them because you can bring prosecutions and that is not one!
Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by selimthegrim on Thursday May 23, 2024 @05:58AM (#40452703)
Like I said, a moral case. There are also things like “trial of the facts”
Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by johnbellone on Thursday May 23, 2024 @07:03AM (#40453150)
Go away with the “well, actually”.

It’s a civil dispute.

Re:OpenAI and Scarlett Johansson's Voice by Gormo on Thursday May 23, 2024 @08:00AM (#40453624)
The term "prosecution" applies to civil cases as well as criminal ones.