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Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by atoav on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @12:40PM (#40300122)
The main use of capacitors in circuits (if we go by capacity) are bypass capacitors. These are essentially small buffers of electricity that can charge and discharge quickly when a jolt of power is needed downstream.

Without bypass capacitors every sudden draw of power would pull the supply voltage of the whole system down, especially if your power source (battery) can't react that quickly or has limited discharge rates.

Without having looked into the plans here, I'd expect a super-capacitor solution to look like this:

1. You charge your cars of super-capacitors super quickly at special charging spots and drive away

2. The stored charge is then partly used for driving, partly used to charge the cars actual battery and partly used to act as a bypass capacitor to smooth out the load for the battery

3. Eventually the capacitors are empty, but you had a short charging process that filled part of your batteries

Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by mlyle on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @12:57PM (#40300321)
I don't really think of bulk capacitance as bypass capacitance, but here the role is similar (on longer time scales).

Cars are unlikely to have huge supercapacitors useful for changing the charge much, too. (And there's not much point in moving power stored in a capacitor to be stored in a battery).

The main use of this is to provide short duration power, as you describe. That is, lithium batteries have great energy density but not as great power density or cycle life as capacitors. So a small amount of bulk capacitance can improve battery performance and reduce stresses on the battery.

This is more useful for short range vehicles like plug-in hybrids, because they have smaller packs. Larger vehicle packs tend to have plenty of power available, as a side effect of being designed to store tons of energy.

Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by LorenPechtel on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @04:15PM (#40302371)
Makes me wonder if there might be a viable hybrid with no battery, just a supercapacitor. It wouldn't allow you to reclaim energy off hills or the like, but give the advantage hybrids have in city driving without the downside of that battery pack that will wear out in time.
Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by adrianN on Thursday May 09, 2024 @01:04AM (#40305452)
Some diesel busses have a bank of capacitors that is charged when braking that can then run the onboard electricity for a while.
Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by CyberDildonics on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @01:00PM (#40300365)
If an EVs batteries aren't mostly full, the limitation is in the amount of power that can be pumped into them. There isn't really a reason to charge capacitors directly or in any special way.

Even for high discharge I'm skeptical, lithium titanate batteries are probably much better, their durability and extreme charging and discharge rates make them half way to capacitors already.

Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by ComputerGuru on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @02:10PM (#40301221)
> the limitation is in the amount of power that can be pumped into them

You could say that. You could also be more pedantic and say that this comes at the cost of some decrease in battery life (and efficiency) due to the resistance resulting in some amount of heat in order to facilitate this high-speed charging process.

But I don’t know if the ROI on improved battery life would be worth the complexity, size, weight, and cost of a two-stage charging process. As battery tech improves, that resistance continues to come down.

Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by CyberDildonics on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @05:10PM (#40302738)
this comes at the cost of some decrease in battery life

What does? I said the limitation is usually getting enough electricity to charge them fast. Most of the time EVs are not being charged as fast as they could be.

Re:New capacitor with 19-times energy density by crote on Thursday May 09, 2024 @11:49PM (#40315363)
Bypass capacitors aren't really used to prevent a whole-system voltage sag - they are there to deal with the effects of high-frequency signal switching.

The traces supplying power aren't theoretical, so they have a nonzero impedance. This means that when there is any change in power demand due to transistors switching, the trace will try to resist this change in supply current. An increased power demand leads to a very local voltage drop, a reduced power demand leads to a very local voltage spike.

Bypass capacitors are placed as close as possible to the individual chips to reduce the impedance between the capacitor and the chip. You even intentionally use smaller capacitors because the bigger ones have a higher impedance.